HELP!! I need guidance I saw someone cheating

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I need guidance, I saw one of my classmates cheating on our mid-term pharm test. We self grade so she changed about 12 answers to get a passing grade. NOT only did I see her but in the hall after grading she told me she had to change them just to barely pass. I got an 83% and passing is 78% so sure I wanted a better grade to but would never have changed my answers.

Ethicly I think I know what to do, I just don't want to be a tattle tail and she knows I know so there is my catch 22 :no:.

I guess what I'm asking is what would you do?

Specializes in Hospice.

Sooo ... the OP doesn't want to disclose because a) it would damage her self-esteem by making her feel like a tattle-tale and b) because the cheater would know it was the OP that disclosed.

Falsified records (the changed answers), covered-up med errors (the wrong answers) and bullying (the social fall-out from disclosure). Are we really sure we want to tolerate these and let "karma" take care of the problem?

As for the OP being ethical for just thinking about the issue ... is it really ethical to know about a wrong and let it happen anyway because of the unpleasant consequences to oneself?

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Specializes in NICU, Post-partum.
Sooo ... the OP doesn't want to disclose because a) it would damage her self-esteem by making her feel like a tattle-tale and b) because the cheater would know it was the OP that disclosed.

Falsified records (the changed answers), covered-up med errors (the wrong answers) and bullying (the social fall-out from disclosure). Are we really sure we want to tolerate these and let "karma" take care of the problem?

As for the OP being ethical for just thinking about the issue ... is it really ethical to know about a wrong and let it happen anyway because of the unpleasant consequences to oneself?

You are missing the point.

You cannot graduate if you cannot pass nursing classes.

Even if you got a degree, if you don't know your stuff, you cannot be an RN or LPN if you don't pass the state boards.

Who is getting hurt? ONE PERSON....the person who cheated.

Don't compare it to covering up medical errors...that is comparing apples and oranges...covering up medical errors can go on and on and on and damages an INNOCENT person that has the legal right to be treated by someone who is competent to give care.

Dont make the situation out to be something it's not.

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Specializes in Hospice.
You are missing the point.

You cannot graduate if you cannot pass nursing classes.

Even if you got a degree, if you don't know your stuff, you cannot be an RN or LPN if you don't pass the state boards.

Who is getting hurt? ONE PERSON....the person who cheated.

Don't compare it to covering up medical errors...that is comparing apples and oranges...covering up medical errors can go on and on and on and damages an INNOCENT person that has the legal right to be treated by someone who is competent to give care.

Dont make the situation out to be something it's not.

Disagree ... I got the point. My point is that we are talking about the OP's responsibility, here ... not whether the cheater will eventually get caught. There is no magic about a license that will guarantee that if a student tolerates and helps to cover up falsification of a test in school ... thus allowing the cheating student continue to work in clinicals where she does care for patients ... she won't do the same thing in the workplace with med errors and records.

An apple in an orchard and an apple in a pie remains an apple.

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Specializes in NICU, Post-partum.
Disagree ... I got the point. My point is that we are talking about the OP's responsibility, here ... not whether the cheater will eventually get caught. There is no magic about a license that will guarantee that if a student tolerates and helps to cover up falsification of a test in school ... thus allowing the cheating student continue to work in clinicals where she does care for patients ... she won't do the same thing in the workplace with med errors and records.

An apple in an orchard and an apple in a pie remains an apple.

By posting it she understands that it's the wrong thing to do.

However, we all know that majoring in nursing is not like majoring in basket weaving...just because you pass the classes doesn't mean you get the job.

Nursing school follows Darwin's theory to a T....only the strongest will survive.

It was a quiz, it wasn't an exam...do you really think that nursing school instructors are going to be stupid enough to allow students to grade all of their exams?

If the problem wouldn't easily take care of itself, I would say go report it.

But in this case it will.

Nowhere did the OP state that it was no big deal...so there is no "integrity" issue with the OP.

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Well, I see your point. However, if someone has to fudge answers on a midterm, that doesn't bode well for them even passing a final, let alone the NCLEX. And yes, IMO the fact that the OP was concerned about shows ethics. She could have blown it off and not thought twice, but she was concerned enough to make a thread. To me that shows concern about the ethical dilemma of cheating.

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Specializes in Hospice.

Just for the sake of continuing to explore the subject ... where, then, is the line drawn, and how?

Is it that it's "just nursing school" and the perpetrator will "probably" get caught eventually? What about the potential harm to her clinical patients? Or is it that ethical behavior is not required of a student ... just ethical thought.

Is it that "no one got hurt"? Couldn't the same be said of the majority of the med errors and fudged medical records?

I'm trying to understand why the ethical line is different when the person "in the know" is a student vs when she is licensed.

ETA: I am in no way trying to rake the OP over the coals ... she hasn't done anything wrong and has asked a very interesting question ... and, frankly, I understand completely why she would be reluctant to disclose.

However, she didn't ask about being understandable, she asked about being ethical ...

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Specializes in Nursing Professional Development.

What I would probably do in this situation is to find a way to alert the school to the cheating problem without naming specific names (if I could avoid that). Let them know there is a problem and let them respond.

I would prefer to do it anonymously, but I would also be willing to a trustworthy instructor and say that I have seen cheating and been told by someone that they had cheated -- but that I was afraid of disclosing the name of the person because I was afraid of retaliation. With any luck, they would be sympathetic to my fears and take the report to the next level without dragging me into it. They would simply fix the problem by not allowing any more self-grading without having to make a big deal about it.

In fact, when I was in my PhD program, a friend and I observed some behavior we did not approve of and reported it to the faculty without mentioning specific names. Within a few months, we saw some changes in the curriculum that indicated to us they had heard our complaints and were addressing some of the problems by making some changes in the course requirements. The situation wasn't exactly the same, but the strategy for addressing a problem was similar. Also, as a teacher, I often handle problems is such a way. Change the system to prevent them happening again rather than make a federal case out of it by trying to "prove" and discipline a student who may have done something wrong.

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Specializes in Hospice.

I like that solution!

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Specializes in NICU, Post-partum.
Just for the sake of continuing to explore the subject ... where, then, is the line drawn, and how?

Is it that it's "just nursing school" and the perpetrator will "probably" get caught eventually? What about the potential harm to her clinical patients? Or is it that ethical behavior is not required of a student ... just ethical thought.

Is it that "no one got hurt"? Couldn't the same be said of the majority of the med errors and fudged medical records?

I'm trying to understand why the ethical line is different when the person "in the know" is a student vs when she is licensed.

ETA: I am in no way trying to rake the OP over the coals ... she hasn't done anything wrong and has asked a very interesting question ... and, frankly, I understand completely why she would be reluctant to disclose.

However, she didn't ask about being understandable, she asked about being ethical ...

I never, ever said that it was "just nursing school".

You didn't read my post carefully enough.

A degree in nursing school is 190% worthless, unless you pass your state boards.

If you cannot pass a simple quiz in school, without having to change one, but 12 ANSWERS, in a test that the instructor JUST HAPPENED to have students to self grade...do you really, really think that student is going to make it?

I think not.

I based my answer on the entire picture of the situation...not just one aspect of it.

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thank you for all of your reples, I can see that is is a conflict for most as it is for me. I thought maybe I was just being super sensitive or a "big baby" for feeling upset and uneasy about the whole thing.

The student I'm talking about has a BA(in another subject) already just needs the nursing part as she wants to get a masters in Nursing to be a NP. we are not just in the first quarter nearing the end of the program and yes she is at clinicals 2-3 times a week passing meds, wound care, patient care, Etc. SO I'm concerned. What if she can just bearly make it. Passing the NCLEX with no points to spare is still passing right? So no she might not be able to cheat on it but she just might have learned enough to get by.

BTW she told me she changed the answers also as she saw that I noticed, I just walked away from her, didn't want to discuss it.

I'm going to call the instructor and talk to her wish me luck that it doesn't bite me in the butt.

Thank you again for all of your replies. I'm also interested in the fine line another poster mentioned would love to hear any addional thoughts on that.

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Specializes in Hospice.
I never, ever said that it was "just nursing school".

You didn't read my post carefully enough.

A degree in nursing school is 190% worthless, unless you pass your state boards.

If you cannot pass a simple quiz in school, without having to change one, but 12 ANSWERS, in a test that the instructor JUST HAPPENED to have students to self grade...do you really, really think that student is going to make it?

I think not.

I based my answer on the entire picture of the situation...not just one aspect of it.

And you didn't read my posts, either ... the question was never whether the student who cheated was going to make it thru nursing school or pass her boards.

The question was what is the ethical obligation of the student who witnessed and was told about the cheating by the one who did it.

Why does the (questionable) assumption that the cheating student would never actually practice change the ethical challenge to the student who knew about the cheating?

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Specializes in NICU, Post-partum.
And you didn't read my posts, either ... the question was never whether the student who cheated was going to make it thru nursing school or pass her boards.

The question was what is the ethical obligation of the student who witnessed and was told about the cheating by the one who did it.

Why does the (questionable) assumption that the cheating student would never actually practice change the ethical challenge to the student who knew about the cheating?

I read your posts.

That's all I have to say about it.

If the class was English, History, etc...I would have said, yup...go to the instructor.

But for nursing school? Nope...as I have said several times already..problem takes care of itself.

That's like swating a fly that is getting ready to die...what's the point if the end result is the same????

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