HELP DNP vs FNP

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Can anyone explain the advantages of going ahead and getting my DNP? What can I do clinically with a DNP and not with a FNP? Pay differences? Open my own clinic?

THANKS

Specializes in Anesthesia.

The DNP isn't a requirement for anyone except CRNAs graduating in 2025 or later.

There are numerous ongoing studies looking at what DNPs bring to the table. APNs are all already extremely safe, so it maybe that DNP grads are higher utilizers of EBP, have greater job satisfaction, or variety of other things than just not killing our patients more or less than MSN graduates.

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Specializes in Internal Medicine.

If that's all they find that the DNP brings to the table, you won't find a lot of people dropping $20k+ and spending a couple years of their life for it.

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Specializes in Anesthesia.

Yep, that must be why new dnp programs are opening all the time and there are already thousands of DNP graduates.

Is it so awful to have a group of nurses that actually have ability to understand and implement EBP?

Before you say you or APNs already know how to do this then explain why it takes an average of 17 years to bring research into practice and why do the majority of providers practice exactly they way they are taught until change is forced upon them through policy?

Not every advancement in nursing is going to be measured by how many patients we don't kill or injure by our direct actions.

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Specializes in Family Nurse Practitioner.

The schools are cranking out DNPs because it is a money maker.

I can't speak for other places but in the hospitals where I work although nurses and NPs are treated well nursing research is only valued by the nurses who are producing it and the schools who are attempting to elevate it.

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Specializes in Anesthesia.

I understand why schools are making the conversion to the DNP and some of that is financial, but that doesn't explain all the nurses going back for a MSN-DNP or the nurses choosing to get a DNP over an MSN.

Who is talking about "nursing research"? I am talking about all research. When is the last time APN/provider actually implemented "nursing research" into their practice?

The DNP does not focus on "nursing research", which most people including nurses can't even define.

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Specializes in Internal Medicine.
Yep, that must be why new DNP programs are opening all the time and there are already thousands of DNP graduates.

Is it so awful to have a group of nurses that actually have ability to understand and implement EBP?

Before you say you or APNs already know how to do this then explain why it takes an average of 17 years to bring research into practice and why do the majority of providers practice exactly they way they are taught until change is forced upon them through policy?

Not every advancement in nursing is going to be measured by how many patients we don't kill or injure by our direct actions.

So is there research that shows a DNP trained NP's bring EBP practice into the forefront faster than an MSN NP since that is the angle you are arguing now? Your 17 years stat sounds like it applies to all medical professions (many of whom are doctorally trained), so it doesn't sound like slapping an extra degree and title onto a persons name is the answer or a catalyst for change. Your inference that an MSN trained nurse can't implement EBP is ridiculous.

Advancements in our field are going to be based on clinical outcomes (and I don't mean injury and death) of our patients that we treat as providers and to be blunt, how we stack up to other professional providers i.e. MD's, DO's, and PA's. You're a CRNA, you should know that you and your colleagues have been providing the same quality of care and clinical expertise that an anesthesiologist can, for a fraction of the cost to the system. By adding a DNP as a requirement, it's increasing the cost of education and delaying entry to the market.

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Specializes in Family Nurse Practitioner.
I understand why schools are making the conversion to the DNP and some of that is financial, but that doesn't explain all the nurses going back for a MSN-DNP or the nurses choosing to get a DNP over an MSN..

While I can't account for everyone's motivation but in my experience:

1. A fair number are new grads are being brainwashed by their universities that working as a RN is not valuable in an effort to keep the tuition flowing. This was openly discussed at an advanced practice gathering by professors from two well known, well respected teaching hospitals in my area. Apparently it is better to retain them and push the direct entry DNP rather than risk them starting to practice, actually gain some skills, and not return to school or not return to their school.

2. There are those who are still under the misguided impression that the DNP is going to be mandatory by XYZ date for all Nurse Practitioners not just CRNAs.

3. In some states the universities no long offer Master's programs despite the board of nursing still approving masters degree APRNs. This causes nurses working at university hospitals where their tuition reimbursement is based on them attending their university to get the DNP. This has also resulted in many doing the online masters programs which may or may not be of a high quality.

4. It definitely seems the DNP is going to be required for those who want to teach.

5. I know two DNP students who have their tuition paid for and have openly admitted they are motivated by it being free and being called "Dr".

None of the above support the DNP is a superior option for someone who wants to be an actual clinician in the role of a NP.

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Specializes in Anesthesia.

Using your criteria where is the research to back up any of your statements. You have a lot of opinions, but not a one of them is backed up with research of any kind.

I understand what CRNAs bring to the table and that the AANA, COA, and NBCRNA felt strongly enough about the DNP that the CRNA community is making the DNP a requirement for future new CRNAs.

The IOM report about nursing brings to light some of deficiencies in nursing education and implementation of research.

MSNs can surely bring research into practice, but for a variety of reasons on average they don't and like most providers still practice the way they were taught.

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Specializes in Family Nurse Practitioner.
Using your criteria where is the research to back up any of your statements. You have a lot of opinions, but not a one of them is backed up with research of any kind.

If you were referring to my post there is no research, as I mentioned: "While I can't account for everyone's motivation but in my experience". I don't think I need an actual study to question your inference that dnp programs must be superior because there are so many of them and so many people lining up to attend them. Basically I offered some reasons why there might be so many programs and students. Nothing scientific about it but if you have research that backs your inference that the DNP must be a good product because there are so many please feel free to post it.

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Specializes in Family Nurse Practitioner.

Not exactly what I had in mind but thanks for taking the time to post.

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
If you were referring to my post there is no research, as I mentioned: "While I can't account for everyone's motivation but in my experience". I don't think I need an actual study to question your inference that DNP programs must be superior because there are so many of them and so many people lining up to attend them. Basically I offered some reasons why there might be so many programs and students. Nothing scientific about it but if you have research that backs your inference that the DNP must be a good product because there are so many please feel free to post it.

Your sole stated reason for the rapid expansion of DNPs was that nursing schools wanted to make more money. I refuted that.

You want research to prove to you that the DNP is a worthwhile degree, but you don't want to find any research to try and prove that the DNP is not a worthwhile degree.

There a variety of sources/surveys that you could try to support your viewpoint, but you haven't tried to utilize any of them.

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