Health Care: The Ticking Time Bomb

[Joe V]

Our health care system hurts everyone. Premiums are expensive and increasing every year. Doing nothing today will cost taxpayers 2-3 times more in the next few years.

Currently, the "public option" is the biggest obstacle when it comes to health care reform. Many believe that it will be the end of health care as we know it today - others think that it is long overdue.

Would you support a public health care option?

[K98]

How sad. Perhaps we should also make the police force a pay-for service entity. They could be reimbursed on a case by case basis when they respond. Then if the reimbursement gets too low for them to run with enough staff to respond appropriately, then I guess it will just be too bad if your family member gets raped or murdered. And why should I care, I mean I don't want MY money going into anything to help somebody I don't know.

Hey and lets add the fire department to that too. We could have a pay as you go system for that one. Kinda like you pay for your health insurance now. Then if your old and sick and just don't have the money laying around to pay your premium for your fire insurance, we could all just stand around and watch your house burn down.

I can't believe this is a website composed of nurse. In my personal opinion it is appalling to hear a bunch of nurses complain about making health care affordable to all. I had a great job. I got very sick. COBRA is only good for eighteen months and after that NO MORE HEALTH INSURANCE. That is if you can afford to pay for COBRA while you DON"T have a job. Good luck with that one.

If you have a spouse with health insurance that will help you during a time like this good for you. But unless you are a multimillionaire good luck with paying the copayments too. Most medical bankruptcies are declared by people THAT HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE. If you get a serious illness that goes on for years, get out your wallet and and watch your money burn. It goes faster then if you lit a match to it even WITH HEALTH INSURANCE.

Believe it or not. Just pray that it doesn't happen to you. And believe it or not it can. It can happen to anyone. I suspect one of the reasons so many people get up in arms about this is because it is hard for them to accept this fact. As long as one can point a finger and say that will never happen to me because I work hard and have health insurance, then they feel safe. But, you are NOT safe. Not unless you are independently wealthy and have a great deal of money in the bank.

By the way I was YOUNG, well EMPLOYEED with lots of savings when it happened. And if you think the government just starts picking up the check because you can no longer afford to pay it you are wrong. You can loose every asset you have before that happens.

Health care is not going to be perfect. To think that it will not be rationed at all is magical thinking. It is already rationed based on your income and access. Read about Sam Waltons fight with cancer. It is no surprise that people with his type cancer go to the place where he was treated to get treatment themselves. Not that others can't go. But not everyone can afford multiple bone marrow transplants and insurance typically does not pay for the THREE that a person I know has had.

But we need to have basic care for everyone. A safety net that will prevent them from going into banckruptcy because they were unfortunate enough to loose their job when they become ill and susequently their health insurance.

So to all you hard workers out there that pay your health insurance premiums on time, you've just been lucky so far. Instead of looking down on people with no insurance perhaps you should be counting your blessings!

Oddly enough, RN does not equal "liberal". The government already takes way too much of the paltry salary I earn for doing this job. I am quite tired of watching my pay shrivel to provide benefits to others. I can't read a newspaper or watch the TV news without some politician popping up with some proposal for a new "revenue stream" (sounds better than tax). I am all for "reforming" health care, provided it doesn't cost me any more than I pay now, and it lets me keep my private insurance and keep the government out of my health care. So far, nobody has come up with a way to pay for this proposed mess, the CBO has reported that it increase costs rather than save money. As for the public resistance to this "plan", those pushing it seem to forget that the majority of us are insured and satisfied with our care.

[sayitgirl]

We are already being taxed for medicare, or did you not notice that deduction on your paycheck?:)

[K98]

We are already being taxed for medicare, or did you not notice that deduction on your paycheck?:)

Yes, we are, and medicare is going bust. Did you notice that? Let's add an even larger program that we have no way of funding. Don't worry, we can play the "class envy" card, and tell everyone that we will tax the "rich" to pay for it. Heh. The full weight of funding this debacle will fall on you and I. It always has and it always will. President O says otherwise, but he is lying. Hope and change my foot. He is just a different door leading to the same room. It is amazing how many people are too thick to realize that.

[vivacious1healer]

And, pray tell, what special insight into "what the gov't is up to" do you have that the rest of us don't??? Is it perhaps because I'm not listening to Rush or watching Faux News that I'm so uninformed? I do make an effort to follow the news and stay informed through a variety of legitimate news sources, but maybe that's not good enough ...

OMG! I was going to say the same thing!

STOP repeating the talking points of Hannity and Limbaugh PLEASE!

[misplaced1]

As for the public resistance to this "plan", those pushing it seem to forget that the majority of us are insured and satisfied with our care.

I was completed satisfied with my insurance also-- as long as I didn't REALLY need it.

[lamazeteacher]

this item from "quote-of-the-day", demonstrates the skulduggery using huge amounts of cash from extremely influencial newspaper(s). that limits the information shown to the public, which could sponsor resistance to a project that isn't in accord with what powerful government figures want published. :stone

it's difficult for the average person reading newspaper reports such as those below, to dissect the true direction of it. also, propaganda-like information is printed as news. it's so important, when we form our opinions, that we consider where and from whom we get our information, from the aspect of how corruptable its source is. when in doubt, i always go from suspicion of "corrupt", unless proven otherwise.

in this day's post, i am sure that quote-for-a-day is a reliable source, as i have subscribed to it through someone on allnurses, whose posts i've found are impeccable. i know i'll not trust the washington post's "news" reports in the future.

i read a column in my local newspaper the other day, that was supposedly something representing views of "the left". it was definitely in opposition to liberal viewpoints, once i looked closely.

if you decide to communicate with this newsletter, please keep to the facts (ma'am, as the detective in an old tv series was often quoted). personal posts without specific reference to their source, detracts from our submissions and makes us sound less than reliable. allnurses has closed several threads due to that kind of thing, which is a sad reflection of some members' lack of self control (myself included, at times when i become sufficiently riled). :zzzzz

here is the newsletter:

send quote-of-the-day mailing list submissions to

[email protected]

to subscribe or unsubscribe via the world wide web, visit

http://two.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/quote-of-the-day

or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

[email protected]

you can reach the person managing the list at

[email protected]

when replying, please edit your subject line so it is more specific

than "re: contents of quote-of-the-day digest..."

today's topics:

1. qotd: the washington post kills blue cross blue shield story

(don mccanne)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

message: 1

date: mon, 27 jul 2009 10:46:01 -0700

from: don mccanne

subject: qotd: the washington post kills blue cross blue shield story

to: quote-of-the-day

message-id:

content-type: text/plain; chorificet="iso-8859-1"

the washington post

july 22, 2009

research firm cited by gop is owned by health insurer

by david s. hilzenrath

the political battle over health-care reform is waged largely with numbers,

and few number-crunchers have shaped the debate as much as the lewin group,

a consulting firm whose research has been widely cited by opponents of a

public insurance option.

****

lewin's clients include the government and private groups with a variety of

perspectives, including the commonwealth fund and the heritage foundation. a

february report contained information that could be used to argue for a

single-payer system, the approach most threatening to private insurers,

sheils noted.

but not all of the firm's reports see the light of day. for example, a study

for the blue cross blue shield association was never released, sheils said.

"let's just say, sometimes studies come out that don't show exactly what the

client wants to see. and in those instances, they have [the] option to bury

the study -- to not release it, rather," sheils said.

asked to comment, blue cross blue shield association spokesman brett

lieberman said, "we're still working with lewin on a study, and, you know,

we don't talk about our studies until they're done."

in testimony last month to a house committee, lewin disclosed its

affiliation with unitedhealth and ingenix in its written submission, but in

his oral testimony he did not bring it up until asked, according to a

transcript.

****

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/22/ar2009072202216.html

and...

the washington post

july 23, 2009

insurer-owned consulting firm often cited in health debate

by david s. hilzenrath

in a revised version of the same article published the next day, the section

appearing between the rows of asterisks was rewritten as follows:

****

lewin's clients include the government and groups with a variety of

perspectives, including the commonwealth fund and the heritage foundation. a

february report by the firm contained information that could be used to

argue for a national system known as single-payer, the approach most

threatening to insurers, sheils noted.

but not all of lewin's reports see the light of day. "let's just say,

sometimes studies come out that don't show exactly what the client wants to

see. and in those instances, they have [the] option to bury the study,"

sheils said.

****

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/22/ar2009072203696.html

and...

the washington post

july 12, 2009

a sponsorship scandal at the post

by andrew alexander, ombudsman

the washington post's ill-fated plan to sell sponsorships of off-the-record

"salons" was an ethical lapse of monumental proportions.

publisher katharine weymouth and executive editor marcus brauchli have now

taken full responsibility for what was envisioned as a series of 11 intimate

dinners to discuss public policy issues. for a fee of up to $25,000,

underwriters were guaranteed a seat at the table with lawmakers,

administration officials, think tank experts, business leaders and the heads

of associations.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/11/ar2009071100290.html

comment: just as the blue cross blue shield association killed a study by

the lewin group that had findings that they didn't want people to see, the

washington post killed the reporting of the decision of blue cross blue

shield to bury that study.

the washington post is attempting to recover from one of the most serious

ethical lapses in the history of mainstream journalism - the selling of

access to the publisher, reporters, and others so participants could "build

crucial relationships with washington post news executives in a neutral and

informal setting."

what has the washington post learned? in their decision to manipulate the

news on behalf of the private insurance industry during the intensive effort

in washington to reform health care, it's clear that the washington post

didn't learn squat about journalism ethics.

they would have been more honest if they simply sold the washington post

company to fox news. at least we would know with no uncertainty where they

stood. maybe we already do.

-------------- next part --------------

an html attachment was scrubbed...

url: http://two.pairlist.net/pipermail/quote-of-the-day/attachments/20090727/5e06d3d4/attachment.html>

------------------------------

_______________________________________________

quote-of-the-day mailing list

[email protected]

http://two.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/quote-of-the-day

end of quote-of-the-day digest, vol 62, issue 16

************************************************

[Desert Man]

Re-define the health care process. Socialise the entire system. The government needs to fund healthcare in this country. Dispense with medicare and the healthcare insurance companies. Stop spending so much on war and international aid and divert the money to health care. Look after your own people at home first! It's a sad indictment when the richest nation on Earth does not look after the very people that make it rich! Americans are expected to fight and die for their country, so what reponsibility does their country have towards them?

A fit nation, leads to a greater GNP, essentially a wealthier country. If people are well, they can work. And what about the pensioners? Should they struggle with healthcare bills in their old age? Isn't America embarrassed by the superior treatment of the elderly in many Western European nations?

Why are so many homeless actually mentally ill? Could it be because there weren't adequately funded support systems in place to house them and look after them? Maybe these people aren't important enough - because they're not productive. Have we lost our humanity - are some people no longer worth looking after?

The notion of socialised healthcare is mis-represented by images of perverted communist values for many in the States. Yet socialised healthcare is alive and well in many modern western capitalist societies. Any of these countries are not as affluent as the US, yet often burdened, they continue to support their socialised healthcare systems for the benefit of their citizens.

There are critics of socialised healthcare in the US. As they pick apart the flaws in these systems around the world, they are seeking to preserve the present status-quo of selection and exclusion in this country.

They do not, of course, focus on the benefits of free health care for the citizens of these countries. This may well raise questions like 'well what are we doing for our citizens'? And, 'why aren't we doing more'?

It's about time the government realistically re-evaluated health care in this country and really decided to leave no-one out.

[K98]

Re-define the health care process. Socialise the entire system. The government needs to fund healthcare in this country. Dispense with medicare and the healthcare insurance companies. Stop spending so much on war and international aid and divert the money to health care. Look after your own people at home first! It's a sad indictment when the richest nation on Earth does not look after the very people that make it rich! Americans are expected to fight and die for their country, so what reponsibility does their country have towards them?

A fit nation, leads to a greater GNP, essentially a wealthier country. If people are well, they can work. And what about the pensioners? Should they struggle with healthcare bills in their old age? Isn't America embarrassed by the superior treatment of the elderly in many Western European nations?

Why are so many homeless actually mentally ill? Could it be because there weren't adequately funded support systems in place to house them and look after them? Maybe these people aren't important enough - because they're not productive. Have we lost our humanity - are some people no longer worth looking after?

The notion of socialised healthcare is mis-represented by images of perverted communist values for many in the States. Yet socialised healthcare is alive and well in many modern western capitalist societies. Any of these countries are not as affluent as the US, yet often burdened, they continue to support their socialised healthcare systems for the benefit of their citizens.

There are critics of socialised healthcare in the US. As they pick apart the flaws in these systems around the world, they are seeking to preserve the present status-quo of selection and exclusion in this country.

They do not, of course, focus on the benefits of free health care for the citizens of these countries. This may well raise questions like 'well what are we doing for our citizens'? And, 'why aren't we doing more'?

It's about time the government realistically re-evaluated health care in this country and really decided to leave no-one out.

Free? As in nobody pays for it? Please elaborate, I'm all ears (so to speak).

[belgarion]

If someone has figured out how to provide FREE health care we need to get that person working on free energy, free housing, free transportation, free food, free Ivy League education, free clothing, and free anything else you can think of.

[byebyeschool]

I am a recent grad, fresh out of nursing school and I just happened to stumble across this forum while trying to find information to help study for NCLEX. I do not identify with republicans or democrats so when reading this try not to view it as biased one way or another. Frankly I am appalled at the people on this forum who seem to only have their selfish views in mind. I have read several pages of posts and within the debate I sense a certain theme in a portion of peoples posts....that healthcare is not a right, some individuals that only seem to have their personal interests in mind, and so on. It is extremely disappointing to find a forum with these themes on a website specifically for nurses. Where did the sense of doing good, and helping those that need assistance, of trying to better another person's life. These same principles should be applied to the population as a whole. What makes the life of a person with a salary of $250,000 any more valuable of a life of someone that makes $10,000 with several kids. And I believe the constitution does make an attempt at promoting general health. I could go on and on, but honestly I can't find the words to continue. I know the real world isn't like the textbook and ideals of nursing school, but we all should at least attempt to make those ideals real. A public health option is just trying to better a health system that has been beset with greed, and misguided principles. The government is intervening because it has to. At this point the system is unsustainable and hopefully a government run option will keep the rest honest.

I understand everyone wants to look out for themselves and their families first, but that does not mean deserting everyone else is an acceptable answer.

[mwboswell]

Loosen your grip on the automatic thoughts that someone might take advantage of you and what you'd like for yourself. This claim that you'd have to give something up when a healthcare plan that preserves and sanctifies life and health for all Americans is passed, is ridiculous; and it is designed to make it seem undesirable.

Let's go to work, and get these changes passed, everyone!!!!

How President Obama can smile and see the changes delayed, I don't know. He and many volunteers like me are determined to see them go through as soon as possible

It's not that "someone" might take advantage of me, it's that I don't want the govt. to take advantage of me.

Other than public health - I see the govt. having no place in healthcare.

Also I am still confused as to why supporters of this "healthcare reform" think that a govt. that is BROKE and in debt up to it's ears, can EVER bankroll this healthcare reform.

It's not the govt.'s responsibility to fix the things that the: (1) insurance companies (2) hospitals (3) pharmaceuticial industry (4) medical research communities have screwed up.

Quite frankly, based on the govt's finiancial history and track record - I do not TRUST my govt to run this nor do I want to rack up more debt!

[mwboswell]

. The government is intervening because it has to. At this point the system is unsustainable and hopefully a government run option will keep the rest honest.

I understand everyone wants to look out for themselves and their families first, but that does not mean deserting everyone else is an acceptable answer.

Bottom line:

-The US govt is BROKE and has largely gotten that way due to it's own mis-management (Democrat AND Republican). I do not trust my govt. to run this thing appropriately. The US Govt. simply cannot manage finances effectively. It is a poor choice for this govt. to step into the ring and end up spending more money and becoming more broke.