Health Care: The Ticking Time Bomb

Nurses General Nursing

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  1. Would you support a public health care option?

    • 1527
      Yes, I support a "public option"
    • 1139
      No, it's a bad idea
    • 2180
      It depends on how it's structured

4,846 members have participated

Our health care system hurts everyone. Premiums are expensive and increasing every year. Doing nothing today will cost taxpayers 2-3 times more in the next few years.

Currently, the "public option" is the biggest obstacle when it comes to health care reform. Many believe that it will be the end of health care as we know it today - others think that it is long overdue.

Would you support a public health care option?

I do not know a single physician at the hospital in which I work who supports this. Nor do I know a single RN that does either. Only on this forum, the usual media outlets and our liberal elitist are wanting this.

Oh yeah: Does anyone want to go into the funeral business with me? I.E. buy land for graves or just start a chain of funeral homes. I got this feeling business will get really good in this area if this socialized heathcare passes.

The funeral business is another "racket" that needs to be investigated. Along with the private health insurance industry. Wonder how that Chicago cemetary scandal is coming along........

Specializes in Chemo.
is it still considered discharge ama, when it's the hospital that's kicking the patient out, due to lack of health care insurance or sufficient resources? :thnkg:

have you said that discharge ama could be due to a hospital closing? discharge planners should place patients in similar facilities if that is indicated, and the hospital where they are, is closing? or if the hospital laid off staff and hasn't anyone to care for them?........ :(

no, closing a hospital because the hospital can no longer has enough funds to keep the facility open. first it's the er then the rest of the hospital, shifting the burden to other hospitals.

it's the people leaving ama because they are too ashamed for not having the money or the insurance. as i seen this happen many times this month. only to have them come back much worse off.

it's the people who can not afford their medication who end up back in the hospital because they are not take their medication.

the discharge planner's have nothing to do with this topic. they can not stop a hospital from closing. nor prevent lay offs, if the hospital is bankrupted they have no money to operate; everybody looses. as i said before everybody ends up paying for this one way or another

Specializes in Gerontological, cardiac, med-surg, peds.

Why am I not surprised???? :confused:

PHILIP ELLIOTT- Associated Press Writer - 8/3/2009 5:25:00 AM

WASHINGTON- Two of President Barack Obama's economic heavyweights said middle-class taxes might have to go up to pare budget deficits or to payhe proposed overhaul of the nation's health care system.

The tough talk from Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and National Economic Council Director Lawrence Summers on Sunday capped a week that brought rare good news for the economy: The worst recession in the United States since World War II could be on the verge of ending. Even so, officials appeared willing to extend unemployment benefits.

http://www.onenewsnow.com:80/Headlines/Default.aspx?id=627624

So, we have a new twist on an old problem. Instead of "tax and spend" politicians, we now have "spend and spend your way into oblivion and then tax" politicians.

Specializes in ICU/Critical Care.

I will support it as long as MY benefits via my employer are not taxed or increased so much that i"m forced to do the public option. And it would be nice for every member of the Senate and the House to actually read the bill instead of just passing it by knowing small bits and pieces.

Specializes in OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI.

Originally Posted by jdub3 viewpost.gif

"I do not know a single physician at the hospital in which I work who supports this. Nor do I know a single
RN
that does either. Only on this forum, the usual media outlets and our liberal elitist are wanting this."

Well, this R.N., P.H.N. is for the revision of health care bill. It is on the web
http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-171409pdf
That site has 1,038 pages of it. I'm not sure why it's been said that there are 6,500 pages........

I'd like you to read it, before stating your opinion of it. There has been such vociferous objection to it by those in health care who profess to have patients' interests at heart, that I can only guess they haven't read it. I agree that the members of Congress need to read things about which they vote.

It would certainly help to advance that practise, if citizens checked up on that essential function of our representatives, by reading the way they vote "on the hill", which is published in newspapers weekly when the houses are in session. Then you could write to them to offer your opinion about their vote, citing specific things in the bill you support or oppose. That could be an eye opener for those who might not have read those bills.

It doesn't help the credibility, of those with strong opinions they voice loudly, if they don't read the bills they criticize. Of course doctors don't like it! They'll not be paid $1,000 (for an endoscopy or colonoscopy, as stated in the bill Medicare got for mine) for 15 minutes of work, as they wish to be, now.

Insurance companies go along with their high charges, to keep them as allies, so they stay in business. The government will pay them according to Medicare pay guidelines, and that's $658. instead of $1,000 - not bad for 15 minutes' work, I think.

Then the amount that the doctors aren't paid, is noted as "portion not compensated", and they deduct it from their gross incomes, as a business loss. So one way or another, they get their requested rate.

Doctors seem to think that saying something authoritatively is a way to get support for their beliefs. Have they read the bill? Ask them, next time they fill your ears with their bleating. I sure hope nurses aren't quoting the beliefs of physicians, as true just because they are physicians and sound like they're in the know!

Please, form your own opinions through your knowledge of evidence based facts.

Media report news, not necessarily evidence based facts. Elitists state their beliefs based on the effect things have on their pocketbooks and/or reputations.
Nurses state facts based on evidence!
So read it
.
It's really not a tough read.

Specializes in He who hesitates is probably right....
Originally Posted by jdub3 viewpost.gif

"I do not know a single physician at the hospital in which I work who supports this. Nor do I know a single
RN
that does either. Only on this forum, the usual media outlets and our liberal elitist are wanting this."

Well, this R.N., P.H.N. is for the revision of health care bill. It is on the web
http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-171409pdf
That site has 1,038 pages of it. I'm not sure why it's been said that there are 6,500 pages........

I'd like you to read it, before stating your opinion of it. There has been such vociferous objection to it by those in health care who profess to have patients' interests at heart, that I can only guess they haven't read it. I agree that the members of Congress need to read things about which they vote.

It would certainly help to advance that practise, if citizens checked up on that essential function of our representatives, by reading the way they vote "on the hill", which is published in newspapers weekly when the houses are in session. Then you could write to them to offer your opinion about their vote, citing specific things in the bill you support or oppose. That could be an eye opener for those who might not have read those bills.

It doesn't help the credibility, of those with strong opinions they voice loudly, if they don't read the bills they criticize. Of course doctors don't like it! They'll not be paid $1,000 (for an endoscopy or colonoscopy, as stated in the bill Medicare got for mine) for 15 minutes of work, as they wish to be, now.

Insurance companies go along with their high charges, to keep them as allies, so they stay in business. The government will pay them according to Medicare pay guidelines, and that's $658. instead of $1,000 - not bad for 15 minutes' work, I think.

Then the amount that the doctors aren't paid, is noted as "portion not compensated", and they deduct it from their gross incomes, as a business loss. So one way or another, they get their requested rate.

Doctors seem to think that saying something authoritatively is a way to get support for their beliefs. Have they read the bill? Ask them, next time they fill your ears with their bleating. I sure hope nurses aren't quoting the beliefs of physicians, as true just because they are physicians and sound like they're in the know!

Please, form your own opinions through your knowledge of evidence based facts.

Media report news, not necessarily evidence based facts. Elitists state their beliefs based on the effect things have on their pocketbooks and/or reputations.
Nurses state facts based on evidence!
So read it
.
It's really not a tough read.

You want nurses to wade through this before they are entitled to an opinion on it, yet the representatives that will be voting on it say that it is "too complicated to understand without an attorney" (John Conyers D-Michigan). The "stimulus" bill was pushed through congress in the wee hours of the morning with no reading, no debate, because it was an "emergency". The Bush administration and now the Obama administration have run through the streets of Washington screaming that the sky is falling. Their "emergency stimulus" has been largely ineffective, with only a small percentage of the money even spent at this point. The sky hasn't fallen, it's still business as usual. Yet the Obama administration finds another "emergency" that needs rapid intervention, health care. This time, the pinheads aren't just messing with our wallets, they are messing with our wallets and our LIVES. Thankfully, national polling is showing that Americans have recognized there is a turd in the punchbowl. I think there will be some fresh punch in 2010. Maybe that is the reason for all of this urgency.

Specializes in OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI.
you want nurses to wade through this before they are entitled to an opinion on it, yet the representatives that will be voting on it say that it is "too complicated to understand without an attorney" (john conyers d-michigan).

the "stimulus" bill was pushed through congress in the wee hours of the morning with no reading, no debate, because it was an "emergency". the bush administration and now the obama administration have run through the streets of washington screaming that the sky is falling. their "emergency stimulus" has been largely ineffective, with only a small percentage of the money even spent at this point. it takes time to get effects of such a mammoth undertaking. the sky hasn't fallen, it's still business as usual. not really, as many big banks and whole industries (automotive) and businesses have gone "under", millions are unemployed, homeless, hungry and uninsured; and a pervasive, increasingly dangerous flu is making its way around the globe. yet the obama administration finds another "emergency" that needs rapid intervention, health care. maybe that situation isn't at your front door, but it is at mine! this time, the pinheads (please have some respect or don't write such disparaging remarks) aren't just messing with our wallets, (oh, do you make more than $350,000/year?) they are messing with our wallets and our lives. yes, most of the unfortunates will be better off and healthier! thankfully, national polling is showing that americans have recognized there is a turd in the punchbowl. my favorite polls are those jay leno makes. if you've seen them, you must have an idea how undereducated our people are! i think there will be some fresh punch in 2010. the health care system will sure be better than that we have. maybe that is the reason for all of this urgency.

good, you got it.

i'd frame the first statement you made, without the concept of "entitlement". after all, we are "entitled" to vote, even without any knowledge/research of our own regarding candidates/propositions! however, i think we can all agree that knowing more is key to understanding and forming opinions. the bill isn't really so onorous that most of us having a college background, could decipher it, when motivated. i'm motivated by my stubborn streak of not wanting others to make my decisions for me, as, it appears many of us are; and others let those they respect (like doctors) do their thinking for them! even though the decisions i make often don't make a difference, i'll defend forever my right to my own opinion.

those representatives who find it "too complicated" when reading the bill alone, need to consult others, on their month off (when else?) - that is what they wanted, and i hope their time will be well spent, that they'll sit around with a group of bipartisan others (and their significant others) like themselves, dissecting the thing with an attorney(s); and reconstruct those aspects which they question, in order to be more comfortable with the wording, or word it otherwise. that's their job to which they were elected!! many of them are attorneys, all of them have attorneys, so what would be so bad about john conyers engaging one of those who are experienced in contract writing, to go over sticky/uninterperetable clauses. it sounded in the quote you provided, as if he was put out about having to spend effort over it.

the second paragraph (i made it so, as it has little in common with the first one), is an attempt to make the obama administration look silly. it's untrue, and you know it! i like a bit of humor, but i don't scapegoat to have a chuckle. :p

Great post Joe V! This is definitely the hottest topic that everyone is talking about! Personally, I would not support a publicly funded health care system. Here is my rant on the state of health care in America:

Recently, there has been a very big debate over the cost of health care in America and what to do about it.

Let's start with considering how much the average lawyer in America earns. Most sources on the internet state that lawyers will usually start out earning approximately $55,000 per year immediately following graduation from law school. That figure increases to approximately $115,000 per year after 20 years experience. But those are just estimates from a variety of internet blog sites. I have met a few lawyers in my lifetime and I can assure you, most of them make considerably more than the top end quoted above. I live in Wilmington, Delaware, and I know for a fact that some of the lawyers here make enough money to buy a $500,000 home with cash! Now as sensational as that statement may sound, it is a fact. And it probably would not be hard to extrapolate that to the rest of the country, especially in all of the big cities.

Wait a minute! Didn't I start this blog with the intentions of discussing the cost of health care in America? So, what do lawyers have to with the cost of health care in America? Well, there is the cost of which every doctor and hospital must purchase unless they want to be left bare-naked in the event of losing a law suit. The cost of their malpractice insurance premiums they pay to their insurance companies is passed onto the public whenever they need medical care.

But, wait a minute! Have you ever looked at your bill after having received medical care at your doctor's office or hospital stay? You will see how much the doctor and/or hospital would like to charge and how much the insurance company will actually pay them? What's that all about? Do doctor's and hospital's jack up their bill with the hope they might at least get something close to what it cost them to perform the services rendered? And if they don’t get what they need from the patient’s health insurance provider, how do they make up the difference? Answer: they write it off as a tax deduction!

So, it appears that everyone who has health care insurance is paying for the rising cost of health care via their ever-rising health insurance premiums. And, even if you do not have health insurance, you are paying ever-rising taxes which include the money the government is trying to recoup because everyone, not just doctors and hospitals, but everyone who makes big money is always writing something off as a loss and deducting it from their income taxes.

And who is allowing all of this to happen? Answer: basically one could say we are all at fault, but let’s face it, the politicians in this country write the laws which effect the delivery of health care to the public. And one has to ask, “What is the background of these politicians who have so much oversight over our lives and our health?” Answer: lawyers! And every time I read about some Washington politician’s background, the majority of them were lawyers before entering politics!

I guess my point is this: Even though advances in medical technology and the cost of taking care of the underinsured, such as illegal aliens and those living in poverty, have had an effect on the rising cost of health care, should we ignore the role that lawyers have played in making health care more expensive?

And, I would definitely agree with anyone who says we all have a responsibility to control the cost of health care too. How many of us use tobacco, alcohol and drugs? How many of us are overweight and have not made any non-surgical attempts to control our weight? What about the responsibility of the schools to teach children to not smoke, not use drugs and to live a healthy life style? Would it not be generally agreed upon that wellness and happiness are one in the same? So, what’s our problem?

The answer to that question is probably so complex it would take a lot of writing to answer it. But the skinny answer is that we live in a culture that encourages self-gratification over self-discipline. That’s why we have so many people who show up at the doctor’s office or the emergency room when they could have reduced their health risk by living a more healthy life style.

But in lieu of our culture’s ability to infuse us to be health nuts, we have developed a very expensive health care system that gives us lots of drugs and exotic surgeries to fix us up when we fall apart. And if, in the process of fixing us up, a doctor or hospital makes a mistake and harms us, we get a lawyer and go to court and hope to win a legal lottery-sized award from the judge.

And believe me, your lawyer will also hope you win the gold at the end of the rainbow too, because he is going to reap in a very large percentage of that award. But what about pro bono cases, because, gosh, lawyers are nice people too, right? Let’s be sensible, if lawyers spent any significant amount of time on pro bono cases, they would never make enough money to buy those really nice suits and those incredible cars they drive!

But hey, that’s America!

Specializes in Gerontological, cardiac, med-surg, peds.

:yeahthat:Excellent post, the bridge :yeah:

Thank you VickyRN!

Specializes in OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI.
please excuse my teacher's penchant for correction of spelling and whatever else strikes my needs, as well as writing my thoughts into your work.

so, what do lawyers have to with the cost of health care in america? well, there is the cost of malpractice insurance which every doctor and hospital must purchase unless they want to be left bare-naked in the event of losing a law suit. the cost of their malpractice insurance premiums they pay to their insurance companies is passed onto the public whenever they need medical care.

yes, malpractise insurance premiums' cost certainly is passed on to patients, their insurance companies covering them through ever rising premiums; and dictates whether the cost of insuring employees makes it unfeasible to continue their employment. it is also "double dipping", because as a cost of business, the amount of the premium can be deducted from doctors' income taxes! lawyers' fees for defending doctors can be deducted from their income taxes, too....... however, the awards to patients when malpractice has been proven, may not be entirely tax deductible; and that makes that doctors' premium for that insurance go up exponentially, which doesn't seem to curb some doctors' habitual vulnerability for lawsuits, which usually result from (a) having malpractise insurance, and (b) having lousy relationships/communication skills with patients, for which patients get to pay more........

have you ever looked at your bill after having received medical care at your doctor's office or hospital stay? you will see how much the doctor and/or hospital would like to charge and how much the insurance company will actually pay them? what's that all about? do doctor's and hospitals jack up their bill with the hope they might at least get something close to what it cost them to perform the services rendered?

doctors' fees don't reflect cost of service only, as they are so inflated to offset the possibility of being sued; and patients will usually feel guilty when they see the gap between what the doctor charged, and what insurance ompanies and medicare will pay in that geographical area, for a particular task/procedure (the going rate as estimated by hacks).

and if they don’t get what they need from the patient’s health insurance provider, how do they make up the difference? answer: they write it off as a tax deduction! yes, it's called a "business loss"! so don't feel so bad for the docs.......

.........everyone who has health care insurance is paying for the rising cost of health care via their ever-rising health insurance premiums. (if you're lucky enough to retain your employment and pay them, after having any consequential illness) and, even if you do not have health insurance, you are paying ever-rising taxes which include the money the government is trying to recoup because everyone, not just doctors and hospitals, but everyone who makes big money is always writing something off as a loss and deducting it from their income taxes.

and it is well known that the richer the tax payer, the less income tax they pay, due to their ability to afford tax shelters.........

and who is allowing all of this to happen? answer: basically one could say we (and the government) are all at fault, but let’s face it, the politicians in this country write the laws which affect the delivery of health care to the public. and one has to ask, “what is the background of these politicians who have so much oversight over our lives and our health?” answer: lawyers! and every time i read about some washington politician’s background, the majority of them were lawyers before entering politics! that's due to their ability to stay awake when reading laws, which most people (and most politicians) find deadly dull...... they also can word bills in such a way that no one in political office can be sued after the bill is passed, for the ill effect it could have.

.....even though advances in medical technology, computers and billing resources and the cost of taking care of the underinsured, such as illegal aliens and those living in poverty, have had an effect on the rising cost of health care, should we ignore the role that lawyers have played in making health care more expensive? only if successful prosecution for malpractise causes doctors' incomes to plummet, making them practically fair......:yeah:

....... we all have a responsibility to control the cost of health care too. how many of us use tobacco, alcohol and drugs without going to programs that have been proven to curb addictions?

how many of us are overweight and have not made any non-surgical attempts to control our weight? not many obese people have never gone on a diet. however most weight loss incurred by dieting, causes more weight to be gained afterward. unless behavior modification and portion correction is included in a diet, it will fail. our socialization revolves around meals, which deters weight loss, as unconscious eating takes place during social occasions. what about the responsibility of the schools to teach children to not smoke, not use drugs and to live a healthy life style? all high schools have those programs, or they would be out of compliance with funding requirements. would it not be generally agreed upon that wellness and happiness are one and the same? so, what’s our problem? i'd change wellness to well being here, as health promotes that, as does well being promote health.

the answer to that question is probably so complex it would take a lot of writing to answer it. but the skinny answer is that we live in a culture that encourages self-gratification over self-discipline. that’s why we have so many people who show up at the doctor’s office or the emergency room when they could have reduced their health risk by living a more healthy life style. like preventing illness through regular checkups (a regime of the past, since "health" insurance companies pay only for illness being treated), maintaining immunization and low cholesterol and close monitoring of prediabetic patients and those with sufficient stress that they are at risk for mental illness. what is the responsibility of schools to teach acceptance of mental illness, so that those so afflicted will seek care for that without exposure to the adult version of school childrens' heckling, which is unemployment caused by weirdness.

but in lieu of our culture’s ability to infuse us to be health nuts, have the knowledge and coaching by professionals to eat for health; and taking only those supplements that are approved for specific individuals, rather than the token vitamin pill(s). we have developed a very expensive health care system that gives us lots of very expensive drugs we can't afford, then requiring exotic surgeries to fix us up when we fall apart due to lack of medication earlier, overwork, sleep deprivation, and unhealthy eating because our doctors were subjected to a punishing schedule and view such lifestyles as normal! and if, in the process of fixing us up, a doctor or hospital makes a mistake and harms us, we get a lawyer and go to court and hope to win a legal lottery-sized award from the judge. usually it's juries that determine the monetary awards, since they're selected on the basis of low intelligence, making them not doctors or most patients' peers

and believe me, your lawyer will also hope you win the gold at the end of the rainbow too, because he is going to reap in a very large percentage of that award if hourly charges haven't been chosen for their compensation. but what about pro bono cases, because, gosh, lawyers are nice people too, right? let’s be sensible, if lawyers spent any significant amount of time on pro bono cases, they would never make enough money to buy those really nice suits,huge homes, expensive vacations, token wives, childrens college fees and those incredible cars they drive!

quote]

so many of us think doctors wouldn't function better if they made less money, which is nonsense! doctors with altruism driving their choice to attend medical school, are motivated to achieve satisfaction from their patients' achievement of health through their doctors' efforts to apply known and whatever "unproven" methods which can be used safely. since their job satisfaction is in the patients' healthy outcomes, they spend more time with them and use their charming personalities rather than false ego enhancing postures. :saint:

Thank you lamazeteacher for such a great reply to my post!

Regarding my implying that "wellness" is synonymous with "happiness," I have always felt very comfortable with this relationship. While attending my BSN program, I was enlightened by how profound wellness promotion can be. Wellness promotion is the mission statement of professional nursing. Happiness is, philosophically, the goal that we all wish to achieve for ourselves and our communities. And it is the same with wellness, but wellness is regarded more as a methodology rather than a philosophy. But, as far as I can discern, it would be very difficult to have one without the other.

And as sad as it may sound, there are a lot of high school students who are experimenting with all kinds of street drugs and drugs they get from their parents' medicine cabinets. This situation exists at every socioeconomic level of our society. From the very well-off families living in the suburbs, to the poverty stricken areas in the cities, you will find huge numbers of high school teenagers experimenting with, and, becoming addicted to a variety of drugs. The schools do have programs in place, but the peer pressure to experiment with drugs and alcohol is very influential with this group.

I believe that most doctors have entered the medical field because they genuinely want to help patients achieve their optimum level of wellness. But doctors are not immune to the need to compete in their profession. And that is not always a bad thing. Competition between professionals will breed excellence. And in our society, if you are capable of doing something well, you should be paid well for doing it. And this competition, hopefully, will push aside those doctors who are incompetent.

I am very sympathetic to the vulnerability of doctors regarding malpractice law suits simply because they are so vastly outnumbered by lawyers. From some of the sources I have read, there are at least ten lawyers for every doctor. Many of the lawyers are not involved in medical malpractice litigation, but a significant percentage of them are definitely in the business of suing doctors and hospitals.

And even though there are certainly some very bad doctors who should at least be banned from practicing, there are many doctors who have left medicine because they have been unfairly targeted by a lawyer who is just out to make money. Additionally, there are quite a few lawyers who will take money from a client, knowing full well they have no chance of winning that case for that client.

Years ago, doctors enjoyed a very lofty position in a our society, and, to some extent, they still do. But with the advent of the very lucrative medical malpractice business, doctors have become just another chicken for the lawyers to pluck.

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