Health Care is a right

allnurses Guide · Sep 13, 2009

So, then, you're ok with the state denying benefits, rationing care, and you are ok with the offering of physician assisted suicide.....as long as it's the government in charge, and not an insurance company?
Well, alrighty then.

I am NOT Ok with it.

allnurses Guide · Sep 13, 2009

" Early this year we lost a dear friend to lung cancer. She chose to forego chemotherapy and take a cruise with friends while she could enjoy it.
Her lifelong partner since age 18 had died of it just a year before her diagnosis. He mother and sister also died of lung cancer.
Truly sad. They were wonderful kind charitable and fun loving women."
How would you have felt if your friend had chosen to fight, what if she'd wanted the latest cutting edge had to offer, but instead, the government run system offered her physician assisted suicide instead?

Her mother and partner did choose to fight with cutting edge technology and medical care.

Thankfully they had no problems. Medicare never denied any treatment.

nicurn001 · Sep 13, 2009

Really, you don't think they'd get "involved?"
No, they'd never do that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Health_Plan

I think you proved my point , when the politicians get involved in an individuals healthcare ,it is a) is usually on a controversial issue and b) no one is happy with the outcome . Generally these types of problems come about because of an individuals reaction to denial of healthcare , where the provider ( whether private or not ) has followed the procedures set up by the provider for everyone they cover .

So no I did not say they would never intervene ( as for example in the schiavo case ) , rather I said , the system would not be based on the premise that a govrnment bureaucrat is sat beside the doctor directing them in the care they can order , you know like the system we have now , were a private insurers bureaucrat can deny care to their premium payers .

ozoneranger · Sep 13, 2009

What will all the agencies created by this legislation do, if not make the cost cutting decisions they are in place to oversee?

nicurn001 · Sep 13, 2009

They will administer the funds available , direct those funds to were they hope they will be most effective ( as do private insurers ) , but then leave the decisions re. individual care to the physicians ( unlike private insurers , were you have to have care preapproved , or denied ).

Care is already rationed by private insurers through preapproval , denial of care and if they can extend your wait long enough , death .

ozoneranger · Sep 13, 2009

They will administer the funds available , direct those funds to were they hope they will be most effective ( as do private insurers ) , but then leave the decisions re. individual care to the physicians ( unlike private insurers , were you have to have care preapproved , or denied ).
Care is already rationed by private insurers through preapproval , denial of care and if they can extend your wait long enough , death .

You keep drinking that kool-aid, ok?

nicurn001 · Sep 13, 2009

You keep drinking that kool-aid, ok?

As expected , a thoughtful ,response from you .

I have lived and worked in an enviroment where healthcare is not provided by private insurers , although ,as in all systems it was not perfect , it provided health care for all from cradle to grave , directed by physicians , not bureaucrats . So if you wish to think I am drinking the Koolaid , so be it , but I know governments can fund healthcare , without direct intervention into individual patients healthcare decisions , which should solely be made by the patient and physician cooperatively .

hypocaffeinemia, BSN, RN · Sep 13, 2009

Health care should be a commodity; a luxury. Those without the means or desire to pay for it should be left in the streets to die.

It's time to abolish EMTALA and install card readers in ambulances to check insurance cards (they can be faked) and accept co-pays via credit or debit cards prior to any services rendered.

Bodies will be removed from outside the (locked) ER doors at families' expense.

This will greatly reduce premiums for those of us who wish to partake in this luxury.

allnurses Guide · Sep 13, 2009

Health care should be a commodity; a luxury. Those without the means or desire to pay for it should be left in the streets to die.
It's time to abolish EMTALA and install card readers in ambulances to check insurance cards (they can be faked) and accept co-pays via credit or debit cards prior to any services rendered.
Bodies will be removed from outside the (locked) ER doors at families' expense.
This will greatly reduce premiums for those of us who wish to partake in this luxury.

Unfortunately some seem to think it should be this way.

Owning an IPod and no insurance would be a capital crime.

ozoneranger · Sep 13, 2009

Unfortunately some seem to think it should be this way.
Owning an IPod and no insurance would be a capital crime.

priorities, personal responsibility, accountability, consequences.

These were once personal values in our population.

I guess I'm just not keeping up with the times.

ozoneranger · Sep 14, 2009

Health care should be a commodity; a luxury. Those without the means or desire to pay for it should be left in the streets to die.
It's time to abolish EMTALA and install card readers in ambulances to check insurance cards (they can be faked) and accept co-pays via credit or debit cards prior to any services rendered.
Bodies will be removed from outside the (locked) ER doors at families' expense.
This will greatly reduce premiums for those of us who wish to partake in this luxury.

Why doesn't the government give every family and homeless person a house? There are lots of people that have 2 homes, they can't live in both of them at once!

Take the greed out of the housing-industrial complex!

Why doesn't the government give food to it's citizens rather than let those greedy food companies make money off of it? People need food to live! It would greatly diminish their quality of life if they didn't get enough!

Why can't we do that too?

Having private, for-profit food manufacturers or home and property sales is just as bad as having private, for-profit health care, isn't it? You simply cannot live without food and shelter, so these things shouldn't be for profit or private should they?

How far down this "socialized" rabbit hole do we need to go?

Does government need to take over these businesses too, out of its obligation to protect and take care of its citizens? There's a lot of risque stuff on television and the internet nowadays.... should the government also censor some of this in order to "protect and take care of its citizens"?

Tell me where the line between government responsibility ends and individual responsibility begins.

hypocaffeinemia, BSN, RN · Sep 14, 2009

Why doesn't the government give every family and homeless person a house? There are lots of people that have 2 homes, they can't live in both of them at once!
Take the greed out of the housing-industrial complex!
Why doesn't the government give food to it's citizens rather than let those greedy food companies make money off of it? People need food to live! It would greatly diminish their quality of life if they didn't get enough!
Why can't we do that too?
Having private, for-profit food manufacturers or home and property sales is just as bad as having private, for-profit health care, isn't it? You simply cannot live without food and shelter, so these things shouldn't be for profit or private should they?
How far down this "socialized" rabbit hole do we need to go?
Does government need to take over these businesses too, out of its obligation to protect and take care of its citizens? There's a lot of risque stuff on television and the internet nowadays.... should the government also censor some of this in order to "protect and take care of its citizens"?
Tell me where the line between government responsibility ends and individual responsibility begins.

You sound like a socialist. We shouldn't feed or house anyone. If they can't afford such luxuries they can afford us the dignity of at least finding a quiet corner of the world to curl up and die. Omaha, maybe?