Health Care is a right

bigreddog1934 · Sep 21, 2009

how have we afforded the trillions for the wars in iraq and afganistan, the $500 billion defence budget, and the trillions we just gave to the finance industry? am i correct in assuming you have been mobilizing and protesting against these dents to your paycheck? and what about the tax system in general that has reduced corporate taxes to around 7% of the national budget from 25% in the 1950's? have you also been organizing against that? or how about the explosion in CEO payouts and the thousands of new millionaires and billionaires? where do you think this money is coming from? on top of that, what about nafta and the deregulation of the banking industry? these were both windfalls for the elites, as well.

you wouldn't just select a national health plan for your ire with all of these important drains on the working class in the front pages for decades, would you?

its interesting to me why there is so much anger toward health care when it would clearly help people and create poorly needed jobs when the rest of these issues do nothing but create war and profit on the backs of all of us.

BahoRN · Sep 21, 2009

Bravo!!!!!

vss04 · Sep 21, 2009

The movement against the public option is based on the fact that there is no way the government can afford to pay for it.

I´m not the one to critizise the american political/economical system but from my (rather small) corner of the world (Sweden ) I will try to explain how our system works and why I can´t look upon it as communistic in any way.

The basic thought behind our health care system is that each one contributes after ability and the money will be distributed to each one after needs.

Of course, there are flaws in our system, some of them under continuos discussion but the bottom line is that everyone is assured health care.

Expensive? I don´t think so. And, if I´m not satisfied with the way our government handle my tax money I´m entitled to kick them away every fourth year :chuckle. Note well, I always keep in mind that the money they have are mine, not the politicians!

Philosophically one can discuss a shift i paradigm, wich in fact took place here in Sweden, let say 60 - 70 years ago when the labour party took over the government. Before that we had no or very few social insurances, if you belonged to the non-privileged people you could only hope for som altruistic assistance from more privileged people. The british economist Johm Maynard Keynes had a great influence in Sweden politics at that time with his intervening ideas. Maybe one can compare J M Keynes thoughts with Pharao´s dream i Genesis (seven fat cows and seven skinny cows).

A system that makes us all to contribute for the benefit of the whole community is in fact moneysaving in the end.

If youre unable to work because of lack of health care the community will miss your contribution to it.

A health care to everyone is, as I see it, in length pays for itself.

//VSS04

K98 · Sep 22, 2009

how have we afforded the trillions for the wars in iraq and afganistan, the $500 billion defence budget, and the trillions we just gave to the finance industry? am i correct in assuming you have been mobilizing and protesting against these dents to your paycheck? and what about the tax system in general that has reduced corporate taxes to around 7% of the national budget from 25% in the 1950's? have you also been organizing against that? or how about the explosion in CEO payouts and the thousands of new millionaires and billionaires? where do you think this money is coming from? on top of that, what about nafta and the deregulation of the banking industry? these were both windfalls for the elites, as well.
you wouldn't just select a national health plan for your ire with all of these important drains on the working class in the front pages for decades, would you?
its interesting to me why there is so much anger toward health care when it would clearly help people and create poorly needed jobs when the rest of these issues do nothing but create war and profit on the backs of all of us.

The intended function of the federal government was/is to provide protection for the states. Not to provide healthcare. As for the "elite", drop the class-warfare crap. It is the oldest, lamest, activity in the liberal playbook. You want to be a CEO? Who the heck is stopping you? You want to be a millionaire/billionaire? Again, who is standing in your way? Sit around and whine about others having too much. Sickening.

psychonaut · Sep 23, 2009

[snip] our system works and ... I can´t look upon it as communistic in any way.
The basic thought behind our health care system is that each one contributes after ability and the money will be distributed to each one after needs.

So, uh, phrased differently, it might be, oh, I dunno, phrased something like "From each according to his abilities, to each according to their needs"?

Sounds similar to something I had read, can't think of what or who at the moment, right on the tip of my tongue...

ozoneranger · Sep 24, 2009

So, uh, phrased differently, it might be, oh, I dunno, phrased something like "From each according to his abilities, to each according to their needs"?
Sounds similar to something I had read, can't think of what or who at the moment, right on the tip of my tongue...

Um...Karl Marx?

Although Marx is popularly thought of as the originator of the phrase, the slogan was common to the socialist movement and was first used by Louis Blanc in 1840, in "The organization of work", as a revision of a quote by the utopian socialist Henri de Saint Simon, who claimed that each should be rewarded according to how much he works.

AnnieOK · Oct 6, 2009

I realize I'm late to this poll, and that my opinion basically means nothing to anyone but myself, but I just have to answer.

I believe that the inalienable rights, the rights that we have simply because we live, are not granted to us by government, and shouldn't be taken away by government. That is why the Founders clearly specified that in their founding documents.

We have the right to life. Liberty. The pursuit of happiness.

Benjamin Franklin said, "The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness, you have to catch it yourself."

So, no, I don't believe that 'health care' is a right. It is however, something that I have yet to see denied anyone. Oh, they may rack up impossible bills, have to go on a payment plan that might last the rest of their lives, but they are alive.

And still in possession of their basic inalienable rights.

allnurses Guide · Oct 16, 2009

[color=#242424]jenny fritts was 24 years old. jenny lived with her husband sean for the past five years, and together they had a little girl named kylee, 2.

[color=#242424]jenny was seven-and-a-half months pregnant with her second child - a beautiful, baby girl.

[color=#242424]jenny is dead.

[color=#242424]jenny's unborn baby is dead.

[color=#242424]they died because they were turned away for appropriate care at a for-profit hospital because they did not have health insurance. sean rushed jenny back to another hospital when her symptoms became even more severe, and he lied about having insurance to get her in the door.

[color=#242424]she was placed on a respirator in intensive care, but she didn't make it. she died. and so did her baby.

[color=#242424]

[color=#242424]they become two more of the americans who die preventable deaths due to our broken healthcare system every year. two more. mother and child.

[color=#242424]and the tragedy doesn't end there. sean has been very depressed since he lost jenny and their baby.

[color=#242424]the rest of his family and friends are worried about him. but he cannot get treatment either. he doesn't have insurance.

[color=#242424]you can watch their story here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td802aj-7sc&feature=player_embedded

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/10/16/165713/38?new=true

bigreddog1934 · Oct 17, 2009

The intended function of the federal government was/is to provide protection for the states. Not to provide healthcare. As for the "elite", drop the class-warfare crap. It is the oldest, lamest, activity in the liberal playbook. You want to be a CEO? Who the heck is stopping you? You want to be a millionaire/billionaire? Again, who is standing in your way? Sit around and whine about others having too much. Sickening.

really? so would you want nurses and doctors to take care of you or would you like ceos to care for you? because, if pay is a measure of merit, the ceo of my insurance company actually makes more before lunchtime than i do in a year. his skill? denying as much coverage to people in need to boost profit and stockholder dividends.

so if you are so worried about class warfare, why do you side with the class the is so clearly on the offensive, making gobs and gobs of money and denying health care to the class that suffers under the entire "for profit" health insurance industry. is it only "class warfare" when we point this out?

and are you saying that there are no elites? what area of evidence based practice does that fall into?

news flash - this has been going on for many many years and lands us in the gutter of the world's health care systems so these parasites can divert all of our needed funds into their own pockets.

don't get me wrong...its not that i think you will always feel this way. its only a matter of time before your life or the life of a family member depends on the actuarial tables of these corporations. you'll get the idea of our argument far more clearly at that time.

K98 · Oct 17, 2009

really? so would you want nurses and doctors to take care of you or would you like ceos to care for you? because, if pay is a measure of merit, the ceo of my insurance company actually makes more before lunchtime than i do in a year. his skill? denying as much coverage to people in need to boost profit and stockholder dividends.
so if you are so worried about class warfare, why do you side with the class the is so clearly on the offensive, making gobs and gobs of money and denying health care to the class that suffers under the entire "for profit" health insurance industry. is it only "class warfare" when we point this out?
and are you saying that there are no elites? what area of evidence based practice does that fall into?
news flash - this has been going on for many many years and lands us in the gutter of the world's health care systems so these parasites can divert all of our needed funds into their own pockets.
don't get me wrong...its not that i think you will always feel this way. its only a matter of time before your life or the life of a family member depends on the actuarial tables of these corporations. you'll get the idea of our argument far more clearly at that time.

You assume too much, BRDog, but that is the way of the know-it-all liberal. I HAVE experienced being dropped. I HAVE a chronic condition. I bought insurance elsewhere. I took care of MYSELF. Try it. It works. The socialist turds in Washington are quickly falling from favor. Most will be gone in 2010. Hurry .

bigreddog1934 · Oct 17, 2009

sorry, all this confirms to me is that you have not learned from your mistakes. and please dont equate me with the democratic

party. i am a actual socialist, did not vote for obama, and believe that health care should be conducted without profit margins.

yes, it is a nightmare scenario.

allnurses Guide · Oct 18, 2009

did the unborn baby who died have the responsibility to take care of herself? (post 115)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td802aj-7sc&feature=player_embedded

don't we care for people who are unable to care for themselves?