Before we get into it, I'm going into first year nursing... but I'm not some young kid. I'm 34, married with a family, studied philosophy in my early 20's, and lived well below the poverty line for my entire life. I'm saying this to avoid any fallacious arguments stemming from status or authority.
Now that's out of the way...
Why is health care not a right?
It's not a right because it requires others to fund your health care costs. You do not have a right to the money of other people.
What about those in need of health care?
We all love helping people, and that's important. Which is why there are countless organizations, churches, synagogues, companies, online charitable organizations, and other opportunities for your access.
If health care is a right, it's immoral.
A socialist view of health care requires the theft of citizens money through taxation to fund your health care needs. Just because I need health care does not mean I can take money of others, even when done through governmental force.
What's the difference between access to things like fire services, and health care services? They're all services aren't they?
The difference is that citizens who pay for services should receive services. Taxation pays for fire services, people are therefore owed that service.Consider, outside of municipalities where services aren't paid for, firefighting is volunteer, or paid for out of pocket. At least that's how it works in Canada...
When is health care a right then?
When you pay for it, however, it's a contractual right. Not a human right. I'm owed the service because I paid for it, that's it.
Who's responsible to take care of me then?
You are. Crazy idea right?
Are there exceptions?
Obviously, those with zero capacity to care for themselves.
I suspect heading into a Canadian nursing program with my views will be an interesting experience.
There are "rapid access" services in Canada, although they seem more common in Western Canada, you can pay an upcharge at these clinics to avoid waits.
The practice of coming to the US for faster care is actually extremely rare, I've worked at a hospital that would have been the likely recipient of these patients, I never saw a single Canadian who came their intentionally for care. This is a good article on the subject: Phantoms In The Snow: Canadians' Use Of Health Care Services In The United States
Stories about Canadians who come here seem to always refer to the same story, a woman named Shona Holmes who was diagnosed with a non-life threatening brain mass. People often here "brain mass" and assume it's a malignancy, and therefore they are going to die without quick treatment. In reality, these masses are most commonly not removed, just monitored as the risk of surgery often outweighs the benefits. Ms. Holmes however wanted immediate surgery and the Mayo Clinic in Arizona was more than happy to operate without much wait for $100,000, this is a surgery that typically should cost about $14,000. Unless you're willing to go someplace that will happily rip you off, the wait for this surgery is about the same in the US.
I'll look further into this MunoRN! Thank you for the link. :)
I think you're making a lot of assumptions about my political worldview, and myself in general. I'm hardly far right, I'm right leaning on some issues, left leaning on others. When did I ever suggest that I'm interested in discriminating against anyone?? I think you'd be hard pressed to find a single post.
Why nursing? Why not business, administration or politics - which seem a lot more egosyntonic with your personal beliefs on the allocation of health resources and provision of care?
It should be noted that Canada probably should pay more into their system to reduce waits, they could increase their funding by one third which would pretty much wipe out wait times, and still be paying half of what we pay per person in the US. This would put them more in line with other top healthcare countries which spend closer to $5000 to $6000 per capita.
I agree whole heartedly that FREE healthcare is not a right. There are a ton of problems with the US healthcare system but there is a reason people head to the US for medical care. I laugh when I hear ignorant individuals say how much better Canadas health care system is. These are the same people who walk into our ERs and get on the spot treatment constantly and wouldn't know what to do if that was taken away from them. Which is exactly what would happen if we followed the Canadian model. I know there are some excellent medical professionals up there and many of them (like OP) end up in the US.
There are not MANY, the nursing statistics show the number of Canadian nurses that move to work in the US is about 1-2%. Professional nursing associations, nursing unions and other nursing advocates like to use the 'brain drain myth' as a political tool to lobby provincial governments to provide more funding for Canadian nursing positions and politicians like to use it to influence voters.
Why nursing? Why not business, administration or politics - which seem a lot more egosyntonic with your personal beliefs on the allocation of health resources and provision of care?
Great question. Well I do love people in spite of what others think of me. Outside of that, everyone assumes I want to be an RN. That's an option for sure. However, without a doubt assuming I complete my BScN, I'll do graduate work. I currently do have a goal of NP. I'm also REALLY interested in nursing theory!!! If you ask specifically why nursing theory, don't have a specific answer, just really fascinated by it.
I'm also REALLY interested in nursing theory!!! If you ask specifically why nursing theory, don't have a specific answer, just really fascinated by it.
If you have a good prof for nursing theory you are very lucky, you're also lucky that you are taking it before you have had exposure to the real world of nursing because you don't have to wrestle with theory and reality incongruence (at least not until you have to do your first patient care plan).
Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.
I think this thread is regarding whether or not healthcare is a human right.
If we wish to discuss our political ideas and beliefs we should go to the Breakroom Lounge. There we can discuss non nursing topics including pets, technology, personal finance, fashion, aging, food, drink, and recipes, games, family, and silliness.
OP, you have said multiple times that no one really "knows you." It is very fair to say that your views that YOU choose to put here speak of your character very well.
Yeah, you may be a competent nurse or whatever when the time comes, but anyone that doesn't fit your bubble will smell your contempt and fakeness a mile away.
Your views are not horrible, per se, they are reckless and illogical. Laugh at that all you want to, I think you're just trying to get a rise out of people.
I feel sorry for you. You must feel pretty low and crappy deep down to want to deny basic rights to people.
OP, you have said multiple times that no one really "knows you." It is very fair to say that your views that YOU choose to put here speak of your character very well.
Yeah, you may be a competent nurse or whatever when the time comes, but anyone that doesn't fit your bubble will smell your contempt and fakeness a mile away.
Your views are not horrible, per se, they are reckless and illogical. Laugh at that all you want to, I think you're just trying to get a rise out of people.
I feel sorry for you. You must feel pretty low and crappy deep down to want to deny basic rights to people.
I've been fairly respectful and polite the whole time... that's not common behavior for someone trying to simply get a rise out of people.
What's with the obsession with focusing on my character, over simply giving me an argument as to why you think health care is a fundamental human right? This keeps coming up over and over.
The question 'Is health care a right?' is a standard debate question in nursing programs and in the classes I have been in, we were free to debate either yes or no (without attacking the opponents character), because we were able to learn more from understanding both sides of this debate.
Tetra
131 Posts
I'll look further into this MunoRN! Thank you for the link. :)