Before we get into it, I'm going into first year nursing... but I'm not some young kid. I'm 34, married with a family, studied philosophy in my early 20's, and lived well below the poverty line for my entire life. I'm saying this to avoid any fallacious arguments stemming from status or authority.
Now that's out of the way...
Why is health care not a right?
It's not a right because it requires others to fund your health care costs. You do not have a right to the money of other people.
What about those in need of health care?
We all love helping people, and that's important. Which is why there are countless organizations, churches, synagogues, companies, online charitable organizations, and other opportunities for your access.
If health care is a right, it's immoral.
A socialist view of health care requires the theft of citizens money through taxation to fund your health care needs. Just because I need health care does not mean I can take money of others, even when done through governmental force.
What's the difference between access to things like fire services, and health care services? They're all services aren't they?
The difference is that citizens who pay for services should receive services. Taxation pays for fire services, people are therefore owed that service.Consider, outside of municipalities where services aren't paid for, firefighting is volunteer, or paid for out of pocket. At least that's how it works in Canada...
When is health care a right then?
When you pay for it, however, it's a contractual right. Not a human right. I'm owed the service because I paid for it, that's it.
Who's responsible to take care of me then?
You are. Crazy idea right?
Are there exceptions?
Obviously, those with zero capacity to care for themselves.
I suspect heading into a Canadian nursing program with my views will be an interesting experience.
So we're playing a game of who is the best of the worst?
I'm not sure what you're referring to by "best of the worst", Canada is in top 1/6th in terms of overall healthcare system quality, they are ranked 7th in terms of attainment of positive healthcare outcomes.
It's what is known as a "positive right" and it's something I'm vehemently against.
You previously argued that in the case of fire services, those who pay into the system through taxes should receive access to those services, how do you see healthcare as being different?
How should healthcare work in general in your view? If someone presents to an emergency room having a heart attack, which could result in hundreds of thousands of dollars in costs yet they can't show they can produce this amount of money at some point, what should occur in your view?
You previously argued that in the case of fire services, those who pay into the system through taxes should receive access to those services, how do you see healthcare as being different?
How should healthcare work in general in your view? If someone presents to an emergency room having a heart attack, which could result in hundreds of thousands of dollars in costs yet they can't show they can produce this amount of money at some point, what should occur in your view?
Excellent question, you either have health insurance that would cover the medical bills, or receive treatment that you would need to pay back at a later date.
I really like your point of view! I also agree that healthcare is not a right. My hard-earned money should not have to pay for the poor choices of others.
I don't care what you call it. If someone's house is on fire I want it put out so my house doesn't catch on fire. I don't care who has paid what taxes. If someone has an illness I want them to get good health care. I don't want to see them prostrate on the street or spreading their contagious illness to me.
Excellent question, you either have health insurance that would cover the medical bills, or receive treatment that you would need to pay back at a later date.
What about those people who will not or cannot pay back the money? I'm thinking about frequent-flier homeless drug addicts who basically live in the ED.
On the other hand, what about an extremely poor elderly man who suffers a stroke? He lives in a dilapidated old house, barely has enough to eat and has no one to take care of him.
You've already admitted to wanting a subsidized education. A heavily subsidized one by the time you finish that NP that talk about in another thread.
You don't see anything wrong in the Canadian taxpayer helping you get the education that you then plan on using to flee to the US?
America? Please take him. There seems to be no compassion in this individual and "the me and mine first" mentality is strong.
Paying for my tuition I most certainly have no problem doing. No idea where you thought I suggested otherwise...
Ummm, no I'm not a Freeman on the land. lol I'm a libertarian.
Yes I plan on being an NP, yes I plan on paying back everything I borrowed to get there, and yes I plan on leaving to the US.
Just because I don't promote a socialist form of health care you think I'm compassionless? Nice try, I think that form of health care you're promoting is immoral... and will never advocate for it.
Paying for my tuition I most certainly have no problem doing. No idea where you thought I suggested otherwise...
Ummm, no I'm not a Freeman on the land. lol I'm a libertarian.
Yes I plan on being an NP, yes I plan on paying back everything I borrowed to get there, and yes I plan on leaving to the US.
Just because I don't promote a socialist form of health care you think I'm compassionless? Nice try, I think that form of health care you're promoting is immoral... and will never advocate for it.
So are you going to contact your university and find out how much the course actually costs? Not how much a Canadian student pays? Overseas students pay twice what you will.
:yes:
MunoRN, RN
8,058 Posts
I'm not sure what you're referring to by "best of the worst", Canada is in top 1/6th in terms of overall healthcare system quality, they are ranked 7th in terms of attainment of positive healthcare outcomes.