I've been going over the older posts and I am alarmed at how many times issues such as poor pay/benefits and long hours arise for many of the NPs out there.
There is no way I am spending the next 2-3 years in school to make just a little more then I do now as an experienced critical care RN, never mind the same old two weeks vacation and lousy or non-existent retirement.
Please tell me this is not the 'norm' for NPs!!! If it is then I am definitely going the CRNA route. At least they are well paid, have good benefits and fair vacation.
I noticed that you work as a RN in the NICU. NNP's are very well paid in my neck of the woods. One of the local hospitals is advertising for NNP's and they are offering 105K to 125K (depending on experience and they will accept new grads) with all benefits (401K, malpractice insurance, etc) for just working three 12 hr shifts per week!
This is not the case in other areas such as primary care or pedes. I know some PHYSICIANS who aren't even pulling in 125K per year!
It was like this in Denver. Even with the View tax NNPs are making around that. Not taking new grads though and not many job openings. On the other hand as a specialty PA I was making more than some of the referring primary care physicians (and I was not making $125k). One of the FP docs took a job at VA because it paid more.
Gee whiz. I have nothing against people who go to online schools, but to me there is just something inherently wrong with going "online" to get your NP license and I believe that is what is cheapening the profession. Pretty soon it will be like you can get one out of every Cracker Jack box.
Looks like pretty soon everyone and their brother will be a NP, thanks to XYZ College online. It's like a faucet and they don't know when to turn it off.
I'm so against online learning for a NP I am willing to take my family and move across the state (or to another state, even) to attend school. That is how seriously I was taking a NP education. I even shirked the RN-MSN. I wouldn't feel right going into it without a BSN.
I guess I could look at it this way, If it's going to get where everyone has one, I guess I'd better have mine, too.
I have worked on my masters on line and on campus, and I will take on line any day, the on campus school would have us print out the notes for that meeting and the Prof would read them verbatim no time to ask questions as they just wanted to get the class over with. On line since you are not constrained in the classroom you can post questions and interact with fellow classmates. One of the reason you are seeing more online NP programs is 1) shortage of instructers,2) our society is much more mobile than when our professors were going to school,3) the flexibility of attending on line for many students who are older and have more responsibility (kids). All np programs have to be accredited in order for graduates to take the exam. I would like to know what states do not recognize on line programs. I know that some states will not recognize Excelsior college in NY if a person did the LPN to ADN brigde program. I dont feel that online programs cheapen the profession if it did why would schools like DUKE, RUSH, VANDY risk thier reputation if they felt that it would cheapen the profession. My university waived my GRE as my undergrad GPA was 3.9 and my references spoke for themselves. By the time you get to the MSN schools assume that you are an adult and capable of learning with out being spoon-fed and hand held. I am still required to complete clinical hours with a APN or MD, so it is not like the NP programs are all Didactic, and those clinicals are not easy fun yes, but my preceptor grills me daily in an educational way and professional way too. Schools with the RN-BSN award the BSN at the time the MSN is confered, you still get the BSN portion but just continue on to complete your MSN. To say that any one can get in to an NP program is not true, I know of a number of BSN nurses who are on a waiting list to get into an NP program. Good luck to you
Specializes in Critical Care, Emergency, Education, Informatics.
Gee whiz. I have nothing against people who go to online schools, but to me there is just something inherently wrong with going "online" to get your NP license and I believe that is what is cheapening the profession. Pretty soon it will be like you can get one out of every Cracker Jack box.
Looks like pretty soon everyone and their brother will be a NP, thanks to XYZ College online. It's like a faucet and they don't know when to turn it off.
I'm so against online learning for a NP I am willing to take my family and move across the state (or to another state, even) to attend school. That is how seriously I was taking a NP education. I even shirked the RN-MSN. I wouldn't feel right going into it without a BSN.
I guess I could look at it this way, If it's going to get where everyone has one, I guess I'd better have mine, too.
They have the same didactic and clinical requirements. If you don't like online education, that's your option. It's not for everyone that is for sure. During my time as a DON, I hired both online grads and traditional grads. No one could tell the difference.
They have the same didactic and clinical requirements. If you don't like online education, that's your option. It's not for everyone that is for sure. During my time as a DON, I hired both online grads and traditional grads. No one could tell the difference.
Here is my slant for what its worth. I have taken online coursework and its OK but really doesn't suit my learning style. I have always had a vague unease about online medical learning. I really don't have any problem with CME or training. What I am referring to is primary training.
Consider the realities of training. To protect the public from incompetent practitioners there are three checks. The first is the school. Ideally it should not pass any practictioner that is incompetent. The second is the certification exam. Ideally it should measure clinical competence. The third is the state board. Ideally they should not license someone who is not competent.
Of these the school is the most important. In a traditional program the instructors have the most face time with the student and know what their abilities are. They should be continually evaluating during both the clinical and didactic phases whether the student is a competent practitioner. This is where I have the biggest problem with distance learning. At one extreme entire programs can be done without the student physically ever meeting a member of the program.
I don't think that an entire program has to be done in person, but at the very least there should be periodic meetings with the student and assessment of their understanding of the material. Furthermore any clinical sites should be assessed by the program physically to make sure they are appropriate and will give the necessary clinical experience. To be sure there are in person programs that do not meet these standards, but hopefully they are rare.
Lest one think that I am alone in these thoughts, this argument was given to me almost verbatim when discussing Excelsior with a state BON member. There is a concern with the BON for RNs but no concern for APNs where, in my opinion, the potential for damage is greater? Recent actions by the Texas BON concerning a few FNPs also shows that both the certification and program specific portions of checks and balances has broken down with a few programs and certifications.
The other specific problem that I have with online programs is that they isolate the students. Students talking to students is a good way to find out if grievances are widespread and students acting collectively can sometimes promote change in a program. It also allows a program to hide problems such as insufficient resources by again isolating the students. Program deficiencies that would be immediately visible in a traditional program can be easily hidden in an online program. Also there is a collective learning environment that can occur in traditional classes (a sense of community) that I have never seen in an online environment. I also find it interesting that the accrediting agencies for online programs (and to some extent traditional programs) deal little with the rights of the students.
There may be little difference in graduates of traditional vs. Online graduates who apply, but does that tell the whole story. To truly understand the depth of the issue there are several statistics that are simply not available. Off the top of my head comparison of dropout rates, graduation rates, certfication rates and entry to practice rates would be helpful in delineating whether or not online NP programs are equivalent to traditional programs (with the degree of online learning as one variable).
Thanks to all of you for your questions, options, and experiences. The more information we have the better prepared we will be.
I live in NC and so I have started my application to Duke University and much of it is on line - the part time option at least. The residency part (800+ hrs) is, of course, one to one with a MD or NP. Duke is one of the top schools in the country, so I have no problem with their program.
I must admit I am still concerned about the salary.... so I am still collecting information not only about the opportunIties for NP's in my area but also opportunities for other MSN prepared nurses such as CRNA (shadowing one next week) and nursing education (staff development IN hospital) I already know that nursing instructors get paid less then I make now as a staff RN. Our local state community college pays their instructors $29 hr. and they have lousy retirement 4% (worse then the hospital 6%). No wonder they can't get or keep nursing instructors!
I dont feel that online programs cheapen the profession if it did why would schools like DUKE, RUSH, VANDY risk thier reputation if they felt that it would cheapen the profession.
When did Vanderbilt begin online NP programs? I graduated from Vandy 3 years ago and it was not online. We had concentrated blocks of time on campus and I spent thousands of dollars flying back and forth to Nashville every month, renting cars, hotel rooms, etc.
If you want to attend their FNP program, it can't even be done in a "block" format. You have to live in Nashville to attend classes, clinicals, etc. There programs are definitely NOT online.
My university waived my GRE as my undergrad GPA was 3.9 and my references spoke for themselves.
There is something called "grade inflation" and it is very common. The GRE/GMAT is the "equalizer."
Sorry my mistake about Vandy I did not realize they did block format, but you knew that when you applied why complain, and by the way not all schools require a GRE/MAT depending on your GPA and references. I would not have had a problem taking either to equalize it out.
Sorry my mistake about Vandy I did not realize they did block format, but you knew that when you applied why complain
I wasn't complaining, I was making a statement. The degree from Vanderbilt has really opened doors for me.
, and by the way not all schools require a GRE/MAT depending on your GPA and references. I would not have had a problem taking either to equalize it out.
I can't imagine any of the top tier schools not requiring the GRE/GMAT for entry. However, the majority of the "lesser" programs aren't requiring any sort of standardized test. Everyone is going to have great references, otherwise, why would you use them as references?
sorry I need to clarify I already hold a Masters so schools dont require the GRE/MAT, so lets not split any more hairs, I guess I have struck a raw nerve with you sorry if I have.
Jo Dirt
3,270 Posts
Could you tell us what state this is in?