Glutton for Punishment?

[OrganizedChaos]

Preface: Sorry this is so long, summary at the bottom.

So I got into an argument with these two women about the fact that there is absolutely no law on the books about BSNs being required by 2020 (also including LVNs being phased out of hospitals). I told them I've been an nurse for 7 years & have heard that since I started. The first woman told me that she was told this by an advisor at her daughter's school, who is a nurse with advanced degrees. I told the first woman that the advisor shouldn't be spreading such lies without documentation to back up what she is saying. I was also shocked that someone with an advanced degree would say something like that with no proof.

Needless to say the second woman got pissed off too & jumped in on the bandwagon. I asked both women several times for proof of the 2020 rule/law but never received anything. I did get shown an op/ed piece from the second woman but now law stating LVNs would be allowed to work in hospitals & all RNs would be forced to get their BSNs.

Both woman continued to bash LVNs & talk about how this nurse new more about this "law" than me. How LVNs kill more people in acute care & how unsafe they are. Did I mention that neither women are nurses! LOL!

I provided them with proof that LVNs are still being hired into hospital positions in the state of Texas as well as ADN grads. I tried to explain to both of the women that it isn't a law but up to the hospital if they want to hire LVNs, ADNs or BSNs. But according to those to, in 2.5 years all the LVNs & ADNs working in hospitals will be SOL & out of jobs.

Do they know something we all don't? I asked for proof over & over. Where is this magical law that states LVNs can't work in hospitals & RNs *must* be BSN prepared to work in hospitals by 2020? I figured you guys could lead me to the law since those two couldn't.

i guess I just like beating my head against a wall for funsies. Because that's what it was like. No matter how I tried explaining to them, it could've been in any language, they didn't believe me. Probably because I'm "just an LVN". But because an RN with a BSN & MSN told them, it *has* to be true.

It just blows my mind that 2 "educated" people can't realize that after a simple Google search what that nurse said wasn't true. Just because someone says something, doesn't make it a fact.

TL;DR: Two women said the BSN by 2020 was a law (also LVNs being phased out of hospitals), I tried to show them otherwise. They didn't believe me because they were told so by an RN & I'm "just an LVN". Neither women are nurses nor could they show me any proof of said law while I showed them proof of LVNs & ADNs being hired in TX hospitals.

[retiredmednurse]

Back in the mid-70's when I was going through nursing school, the same talk about RN's becoming BSN's were going on. At that time, the routes to getting your RN was ADN (recently new idea), the BSN (established college way), and the diploma (getting your training at a hospital with training and learning done through the hospital). I believe the ANA was first to make BSN a recommendation. Diploma nurses were trained only for hospital work-not public health or other jobs outside of the hospital. And then a nurse shortage hit in the mid '80's. Hospitals were just glad to get any nurse-it didn't matter how she got her education as long as she was a licensed nurse. As the profession have gone in cycles of available nurses, I don't see how any of this is going to happen. Many people get their ADN first as they can't afford 4 or 4+ years of college. Diploma programs have disappeared due to hospitals not wanting to do the teaching. There was even talk-again, I repeat "only talk"-to have a mid-level between LPN and BSN-educated nurses. The ADN's would be at this new level, until they became BSN's and the current ADN's would be grandfathered in if it ever went into effect.

[3ringnursing, BSN]

I have an easier time explaining things to my 3 year old than I did to two grown adults.

I guess what I found insulting at all was that they didn't believe me when I have been a nurse for 7 years.

Some people know everything, doncha know?

Luckily we don't need Google with those people around ...

[OrganizedChaos, LVN]

Back in the mid-70's when I was going through nursing school, the same talk about RN's becoming BSN's were going on. At that time, the routes to getting your RN was ADN (recently new idea), the BSN (established college way), and the diploma (getting your training at a hospital with training and learning done through the hospital). I believe the ANA was first to make BSN a recommendation. Diploma nurses were trained only for hospital work-not public health or other jobs outside of the hospital. And then a nurse shortage hit in the mid '80's. Hospitals were just glad to get any nurse-it didn't matter how she got her education as long as she was a licensed nurse. As the profession have gone in cycles of available nurses, I don't see how any of this is going to happen. Many people get their ADN first as they can't afford 4 or 4+ years of college. Diploma programs have disappeared due to hospitals not wanting to do the teaching. There was even talk-again, I repeat "only talk"-to have a mid-level between LPN and BSN-educated nurses. The ADN's would be at this new level, until they became BSN's and the current ADN's would be grandfathered in if it ever went into effect.

I wish diploma programs were still around. I don't see anything wrong with them & they turn out such great nurses.

I'm glad to hear that this has been said for such a long time. I thought I was going crazy for a little while with those two hens clucking their madness!

[OrganizedChaos, LVN]

Some people know everything, doncha know?

Luckily we don't need Google with those people around ...

Lol! That's how all the truth on Google ends up there & then everyone ends up with their Ph. D. *rolls eyes*

[elkpark]

Diploma programs have disappeared due to hospitals not wanting to do the teaching.

I wish diploma programs were still around. I don't see anything wrong with them & they turn out such great nurses.

Diploma programs are still around -- not nearly as many as there used to be, and there are plenty of states now that have no diploma programs, but there are plenty that do. For some reason I don't understand, Pennsylvania seems to be the last bastion of diploma programs -- there are probably more diploma programs in PA than there are in the rest of the US combined.

[OrganizedChaos, LVN]

Diploma programs are still around -- not nearly as many as there used to be, and there are plenty of states now that have no diploma programs, but there are plenty that do. For some reason I don't understand, Pennsylvania seems to be the last bastion of diploma programs -- there are probably more diploma programs in PA than there are in the rest of the US combined.

I think there is *one* here in Texas. But it is nowhere close to me, which saddens me because I would apply in a heartbeat if it was. I just don't understand what hospitals are thinking shutting down the programs.

[rnnluvnit2006]

Education is nothing to scoff at.

While there are many hospitals that will hire an ADN or LVN, the reality is most will not

The competition is quite high, why would you not align yourself with the competition to increase your odds at a better job or position? If you are content where you are, kudos to you, the reality is if you want to advance you are going to have to go back to school.

I worked at one of the Baylor facilities in Dallas with 4 LVNs, and guess what? The hospital was trying to achieve magnet status, and gave them 2 years to get an RN, they did not, and their positions were phased out. No more LVNs at Baylor, which happens to be one of the largest systems in the DFW area.

There ARE ADN nurses that work there, and they are stuck, unable to move up , or laterally to any other system in the area. Is it because they are not skilled? Absolutely not. The reality is that most hospitals that are MAGNET or attempting to get it will not hire without a BSN.

Its an argument as old as time. The only nurses that knock the BSN are the ones that don't have one. In a field with so much competition, it is career suicide to limit yourself.Are BSN nurses better? NO !Are they more marketable? YES! If you don't want to be stuck in the same job forever, you are doing yourself a favor when you improve yourself.

[OrganizedChaos, LVN]

Education is nothing to scoff at.

While there are many hospitals that will hire an ADN or LVN, the reality is most will not

The competition is quite high, why would you not align yourself with the competition to increase your odds at a better job or position? If you are content where you are, kudos to you, the reality is if you want to advance you are going to have to go back to school.

I worked at one of the Baylor facilities in Dallas with 4 LVNs, and guess what? The hospital was trying to achieve magnet status, and gave them 2 years to get an RN, they did not, and their positions were phased out. No more LVNs at Baylor, which happens to be one of the largest systems in the DFW area.

There ARE ADN nurses that work there, and they are stuck, unable to move up , or laterally to any other system in the area. Is it because they are not skilled? Absolutely not. The reality is that most hospitals that are MAGNET or attempting to get it will not hire without a BSN.

Its an argument as old as time. The only nurses that knock the BSN are the ones that don't have one. In a field with so much competition, it is career suicide to limit yourself.Are BSN nurses better? NO !Are they more marketable? YES! If you don't want to be stuck in the same job forever, you are doing yourself a favor when you improve yourself.

Lol. I'm a far way from DFW & I do my research. If I was concerned *at all* for my future, I would be going straight to a BSN program.

But I don't have the funds nor the time to go straight to a BSN program. Also, I know there isn't much competition where I live. I have said this multiple times in multiple threads, a hospital system where I live stills hires LVNs as well as ADNs. I have no concern about my future as an RN. Even if I move to a bigger city near me, I'm not concerned about the BSN rule. I know I can still get a job with my ADN. That's why I tell people to do their research about what jobs are available where *they* live.

I think your post was very ignorant. I have been doing my research about what jobs for LVNs and RNs (ADNs & BSNs) are out there for many years. If there were no jobs for ADN grads, why would I waste time applying for an ADN bridge program? Things might be different in your neck of the woods, but that's not so here. Also, you brought up magnet status. I never once mentioned magnet status. There is not one hospital where I plan to work that is magnet status.

If you live in CA, of course competition is fierce for nurses! But not where I live. I'm not saying there is a shortage by *any* means! But there is not the competition there is in CA. Also, it is not as competitive as up in DFW. So to compare CA or DFW to where I live is like comparing apples to cucumbers.

Before you make grand generalizations, please do your research.

You sound just as ignorant as the 2 hens that wouldn't stop clucking away at me.

ETA: I added a picture of a job listing. Nowhere does it state what type of degree is required. This is a listing from the city where I live & the hospital system.

[OrganizedChaos, LVN]

Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

That is a picture of a current posting to an LVN job at the hospital system in my area.

Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

That is a picture of an LVN position I applied to.

Get the drift now? Not everything is the same in every city. LVNs are still being hired in some towns. They aren't being phased out, grandfathered in or pushed to get their RN. ADNs aren't being made to get their BSNs in every city.

Before you make big, bold, ignorant statements - do your research!

[BloomNurseRN, ASN, BSN, RN]

Oh my goodness! Give me 8 hours and I can teach someone how to be an MA.

Anytime I hear someone say they're thinking about getting an associate degree to be an MA, I generally try to talk them out of it. The only time I don't comment is when I know they're already started and I don't want to hurt their feelings about wasted money. But seriously, it's a waste of money!

[BloomNurseRN, ASN, BSN, RN]

Education is nothing to scoff at.

While there are many hospitals that will hire an ADN or LVN, the reality is most will not

The competition is quite high, why would you not align yourself with the competition to increase your odds at a better job or position? If you are content where you are, kudos to you, the reality is if you want to advance you are going to have to go back to school.

I worked at one of the Baylor facilities in Dallas with 4 LVNs, and guess what? The hospital was trying to achieve magnet status, and gave them 2 years to get an RN, they did not, and their positions were phased out. No more LVNs at Baylor, which happens to be one of the largest systems in the DFW area.

There ARE ADN nurses that work there, and they are stuck, unable to move up , or laterally to any other system in the area. Is it because they are not skilled? Absolutely not. The reality is that most hospitals that are MAGNET or attempting to get it will not hire without a BSN.

Its an argument as old as time. The only nurses that knock the BSN are the ones that don't have one. In a field with so much competition, it is career suicide to limit yourself.Are BSN nurses better? NO !Are they more marketable? YES! If you don't want to be stuck in the same job forever, you are doing yourself a favor when you improve yourself.

Claiming "most will not" is a HUGE overstatement. Yes, many facilities are encouraging nurses to have higher education including a BSN. That doesn't mean that "most will not" hire ASN or ADN nurses. I am currently an ASN prepared nurse and receive recruiting information for hospital systems in my area REGULARLY. I also work for a hospital system that has some magnet status hospitals. One in particular phased out all LPNs approximately 5 years ago. Shockingly (not) enough they have now found that they can't keep all their units staffed and have again started hiring LPNs to work in a patient care role. Oh and I work on a Med-Surg unit and am a relief charge nurse. All with just the ASN.

Categorizing nurses that don't want to get a BSN as possibly committing "career suicide" is far overreaching.

[OrganizedChaos, LVN]

Anytime I hear someone say they're thinking about getting an associate degree to be an MA, I generally try to talk them out of it. The only time I don't comment is when I know they're already started and I don't want to hurt their feelings about wasted money. But seriously, it's a waste of money!

I don't understand the point of an associate's degree in medical assisting. I mean, I know why they have it ($$$). But there is no point.