Glut of NPs in coming years?

harmonizer · Apr 28, 2015

There are a few really great psych positions in my state, and some good ones. The rest are low paid, community health positions . ... The conundrum is that another PMHNP program just opened in my state, and another university is taking applications for PMHNP faculty to begin a psych program in two years. I also lost my second job offer (THANKFULLY!) to a PMHNP infusing in from another state. 0.. some day the patient population will become dilute, reimbursement will wane, and income will fall. So yeah altruistically more folks will get help. Individually, we'll get paid less because of it.

I chose to do the same thing now, opting for the highest wage possible regardless of job security, and try to work hard and save. I work in low-autonomy states so salary for PMHNP is not great. quite a number of low-paying jobs in community mental health clinic around here (but it is stable with good benefits). Now I am taking the risk of doing contract works and try not to take too much vacation times to make decent enough and "fair" income to survive. I paid off student loan now. Anyway, 2 more schools popping up in this state and my school I graduated from increased enrollment by 50%. Once the sky starts falling in the next 1-1.5 years due to increased supply, the contract works may either be dried up or the rate is just not worth working for, and I will have to look for something more long-term and stable regardless of salary... or maybe even looking for some other sources of income.. that's my logic... don't know if I can just rely on my psych skills throughout my working years.. thinking about doing something to diversify my skill sets or at least some type of long-term planning.. ..

tjustice · Apr 28, 2015

HI:

I am a nurse practitioner student at Walden Unioversity in the Cincinnati Ohio area. I am desperately searching for a preceptor for care of adults. I need a nurse practitioner, physician assistant or MD who is willing to take a student and does not have one. I need my signed papers in to school in the next few weeks and start clinical Sept 1, 2015 for 11 weeks at 15 hours a week. I have been a nurse for 29 years. I am hard working, dependable and professional. If anyone has suggestions please let me know. Thank you

Jules A, MSN · Apr 28, 2015

HI:
I am a nurse practitioner student at Walden Unioversity in the Cincinnati Ohio area. I am desperately searching for a preceptor for care of adults. I need a nurse practitioner, physician assistant or MD who is willing to take a student and does not have one. I need my signed papers in to school in the next few weeks and start clinical Sept 1, 2015 for 11 weeks at 15 hours a week. I have been a nurse for 29 years. I am hard working, dependable and professional. If anyone has suggestions please let me know. Thank you

You might want to start a new thread. My suggestion is always to find someone from your personal network of physicians you have worked with and developed a relationship with, ask them for referrals if they aren't the specialty you need or even ask your own providers such as your kids' pediatrician etc. Good luck.

WKShadowNP, DNP, APRN · Sep 18, 2015

I think many people want to jump from RN to NP is simply due to the nature of work involved with being a bedside RN. The work is hard, especially in the total care ICU world. We are usually understaffed, handed a ton of responsibility with little autonomy and the hours usually suck. I have never met a bedside RN who said they could work bedside their entire career. The good ones usually burn out.

Sorry to revive an old thread, but this is a good read.

I have many motivations toward being an NP.

1) Advanced education was always my goal. My father promoted life long education and encouraged me to go as high as I could. He wanted me to teach, actually, and while that's not on my agenda right now, I know that with my MSN and eventually DNP, I could.

2) I have many many years left in me, but my body won't be able to handle bedside nursing at the rate it's going. I know that I'll still be tired and exhausted mentally and physically, but not like now. At least that is my perception. Please enlighten me if that is not the case. I'll still keep going. Too much invested to stop now.

3) Plus, I feel I can offer excellent care as a provider and I am really intrigued about advanced practice. I like the fact that I can fill a void and provide a service that is an example of better usage of human resources. I think society will benefit from our presence and I really wish to be in on that.

sauce · Oct 22, 2015

eh, in the coming future most np jobs will offer salaries maybe 5-10k more than an rn with more responsibility. Might be a select few talent NPS that hold high paying jobs, but with everybody wanting the easy way out we will get saturated. Then rn salaries will possibly rise a little bit if we are still short of rn. But i mean cmon how long do you think np glory will last..... No barrier to entry and everybody dreams of wearing that white coat while not working hard for it.

Because everybody with a brain knows its not hard to get a masters in nursing as long as you can read and write papers. lol.

Dranger · Oct 22, 2015

eh, in the coming future most np jobs will offer salaries maybe 5-10k more than an rn with more responsibility. Might be a select few talent NPS that hold high paying jobs, but with everybody wanting the easy way out we will get saturated. Then rn salaries will possibly rise a little bit if we are still short of rn. But i mean cmon how long do you think np glory will last..... No barrier to entry and everybody dreams of wearing that white coat while not working hard for it.
Because everybody with a brain knows its not hard to get a masters in nursing as long as you can read and write papers. lol.

I agree to an extent. Barrier to entry has long guarded MD salaries for years with the NP realm having no such protection.

I am still waiting for a prospective NP to tell me they didn't get accepted to any school. Literally I don't think it's possible to get rejected from all. The online format is convenient so far but I do feel a little sheepish asking MDs to be my preceptor (most assume it's the schools job) or describing how all of my tests online with a couple campus visits a year. Most don't really comment but their reaction is a little surprised. Since after all they endured 4 years of medical school plus 4-6 years of residency and fellowship in a controlled and constantly proctored setting.

If you open the flood gates the salaries will eventually dilute and I feel like 100k will even be stretch for many. I can make 100K as an RN with a little OT so what's the incentive to take on more responsibility to become an NP? Love of the job?

Niche realms will be the last holdouts for the higher paying jobs but even then those strongholds will falter.

Psychcns · Oct 22, 2015

Either NP's can argue they are doing the same job as MD's and negotiate for a higher percentage of what MD's currently make or

NP's and MD 's can compete for the same jobs bringing MD's salaries down..

allnurses Guide · Oct 22, 2015

I can make 100K as an RN with a little OT so what's the incentive to take on more responsibility to become an NP? Love of the job?

What's your answer to your own question?

Dranger · Oct 22, 2015

What's your answer to your own question?

For me it is the job itself and desire to be a provider (hence why I did pre-med in addition to nursing). I constantly think of treatment plans and DDx on patients throughout my shifts and like trying to figuring out the "so what and why?" questions. At the end of the day the responsibility needs to be compensated though.

For many students I know it is just the next step. On closer questioning some of the NP students I know are scared to be the decision maker and even had difficulty making decisions as an RN. Not really the time to jump into a provider role eh? I am not saying I am the perfect fit or anything, but advanced practice whether it be PA, NP or MD isn't something I just decided to do in a day.

We are drilled in undergrad to pursue a masters or doctorate. Literally our professionalism class was just a commercial for grad school. Younger nurses with BSNs feel compelled to answer the call and thus we are now seeing an influx of provider candidates.

Bedside nursing at most places just isn't sustainable. I don't know how long you worked bedside ( or if you worked bedside) but you will see why there are a TON of jobs for experienced nurses yet not so many for new nurses. People often do a few years then dip out to a clinic, management, advanced practice or another career. I am not saying a provider's job is any easier but it is a more different kind of challenging that is devoid of spending 12-13 hours with the same patients and families managing the minute details, cleaning up or completing monotonous tasks. Being able to pop in a room do a H/P or procedure then leaving to formulate a plan appears more refreshing than you even know.

sauce · Oct 22, 2015

I know right, most BSN programs are just stepping stones to a masters it seems. I don't think np will bring down MD salaries no matter what. In most areas of care NP are not an MD replacement. Maybe for primary care and psych but probably not in any other role. Not downing primary care or psych either they are both difficult and awesome specialties. But i don't see the MSN surgical concentration or anything like that popping up soon. I know they have derm and ICU residencies and/or specialties for nps but I'm pretty sure we will never get full credentials to run a DERM clinic or ICU without physician support. At least I hope not.

allnurses Guide · Oct 23, 2015

For me it is the job itself and desire to be a provider (hence why I did pre-med in addition to nursing). I constantly think of treatment plans and DDx on patients throughout my shifts and like trying to figuring out the "so what and why?" questions. At the end of the day the responsibility needs to be compensated though.

This is the answer most (satisfied) NPs will give. It is the only reason to pursue the degree/job: the role. It can't be about the money, though the money for most is pretty decent.

Bedside nursing at most places just isn't sustainable. I don't know how long you worked bedside ( or if you worked bedside) but you will see why there are a TON of jobs for experienced nurses yet not so many for new nurses. People often do a few years then dip out to a clinic, management, advanced practice or another career. I am not saying a provider's job is any easier but it is a more different kind of challenging that is devoid of spending 12-13 hours with the same patients and families managing the minute details, cleaning up or completing monotonous tasks. Being able to pop in a room do a H/P or procedure then leaving to formulate a plan appears more refreshing than you even know.

Its a case of "the grass is greener". I think many bedside nurses do a hard job and they look over the fence to the provider side and think it's a much cushier job. Its not. They will be even more unhappy as a provider. It the view of the provider as one who "pops in" then retreats to the sofa in the lounge to do and H&P while watching TV just isn't reality. It's even worse in the primary setting.

This is the reason I tell all my students to consider how much they want the role because there are easier ways to make money.

WKShadowNP, DNP, APRN · Oct 23, 2015

This is the answer most (satisfied) NPs will give. It is the only reason to pursue the degree/job: the role. It can't be about the money, though the money for most is pretty decent.
Its a case of "the grass is greener". I think many bedside nurses do a hard job and they look over the fence to the provider side and think it's a much cushier job. Its not. They will be even more unhappy as a provider. It the view of the provider as one who "pops in" then retreats to the sofa in the lounge to do and H&P while watching TV just isn't reality. It's even worse in the primary setting.
This is the reason I tell all my students to consider how much they want the role because there are easier ways to make money.

You make such perfect sense!

In clinic I barely have enough time to jot my notes and look for all the right cpt codes and Icd-10s so the place can get paid. And then on to the next one.