I am relatively new to this board but there seems to be a trend relative to Pro and Anti-Union posts and posters.
Union membership in nursing is on the rise. Still there are more nurses who choose not to orgainize than who do. Will the trend continue to rise to a point where unions hold the majority of nurses as members? Time will tell. If I used this board as a barometer, I would think we are headed down a divided, non-constructive path.
Threads on this board seem to get heated and then closed. Some members use the board to support, without exception, their hardline position about unions. Kinda looks like some have drunk the kool-aide to a point of no return. The first ammendment is a wonderful think but it says nothing about objectivity
As long as we hold the line in one camp- union vs. management, as a profession we remain captive and dependent. It's just not reasonable or rational to think that one or the other is always working for our best interests. We all know horror stories and we can all recite great gains won by unions and facilitated by an employer.
Don't drink the kool-aide. The purple mustache is a dead give-away.
Specializes in Cardiac Critical Care, Trauma, Neuro..
You are allowed to "fire" your union, and vote in a new one. In case no one ever told you that. If you are not happy with them, when you contract is expiring, petition the NLRB to vote out you union, and vote in NNOC.
Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Spokane, Washington
"Fire" your union or actually to Decertify the union is much harder than you make it seem. Once the union catches wind of a decertification drive the wheels start turning and the pressure begins. Pro-union nurses start whispering behind your back, flyers appear and meetings in the parking lot occur. Accusations of colluding with management are made and ulp's are filed. the process becomes filled with anger, distortions of the truth and outright lies. Some would rather just quit and move on then put up with it all.
You do not have to be a member of the union to keep your job. You must continue to pay dues or the union will have you fired (http://k.b5z.net/i/u/6011029/i/CNA_Dues_increase_and_collections.pdf ) and Nurses at St Johns Hospital went to court and lost trying to avoid paying dues ( http://k.b5z.net/i/u/6011029/i/St_Johs_8thcourt.pdf ) ( http://www.stopunions.com/updates ) Unless you live in a "Right to work state". If you do not agree with your unions policies or politics but do not or cannot leave for another job then you can resign membership but must still pay union dues. If enough nurses resign membership it can effectively gut the unions power. If enough of you band together and can get your points accross effectively you can deauthorize the union which will allow the union to remain but make membership and dues payments a choice rather than a mandate. Decertification removes the union completly. This link will give you more info http://www.stopunions.com/links
You are allowed to "fire" your union, and vote in a new one. In case no one ever told you that. If you are not happy with them, when you contract is expiring, petition the NLRB to vote out you union, and vote in NNOC.
Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Spokane, Washington
"Fire" your union or actually to Decertify the union is much harder than you make it seem. Once the union catches wind of a decertification drive the wheels start turning and the pressure begins. Pro-union nurses start whispering behind your back, flyers appear and meetings in the parking lot occur. Accusations of colluding with management are made and ulp's are filed. the process becomes filled with anger, distortions of the truth and outright lies. Some would rather just quit and move on then put up with it all.
You do not have to be a member of the union to keep your job. You must continue to pay dues or the union will have you fired (http://k.b5z.net/i/u/6011029/i/CNA_Dues_increase_and_collections.pdf ) and Nurses at St Johns Hospital went to court and lost trying to avoid paying dues ( http://k.b5z.net/i/u/6011029/i/St_Johs_8thcourt.pdf ) ( http://www.stopunions.com/updates ) Unless you live in a "Right to work state". If you do not agree with your unions policies or politics but do not or cannot leave for another job then you can resign membership but must still pay union dues. If enough nurses resign membership it can effectively gut the unions power. If enough of you band together and can get your points accross effectively you can deauthorize the union which will allow the union to remain but make membership and dues payments a choice rather than a mandate. Decertification removes the union completly. This link will give you more info http://www.stopunions.com/links
Sherwood
This is an anti union web site you have posted. I do not want to do away with the union. I just do not want to be a member of an ineffective one. Most of the nurses really do not want to deal with it and others are new, under stress and can't deal with it and the rest just don't care. I am one of about 10 who really care, want to make it strong but there is only strength in numbers. Our reps are laid back and like someone already mentioned, are in cozy with management so nothing gets done and the hospital violates the contract everyday but when the nurses do nothing about it...the hospital gets away with it...once again. I do not know what to do. I'm tired of being a member of this local unit.I feel like I'm policing the unit when I work. Our contract states we cannot strike, only picket so the hospital knows we will stay no matter how bad things get. It is a one hospital town so they have a lot of leverage. I'm just not sure what to do to make it better.
Specializes in Cardiac Critical Care, Trauma, Neuro..
This is an anti union web site you have posted. I do not want to do away with the union. I just do not want to be a member of an ineffective one. Most of the nurses really do not want to deal with it and others are new, under stress and can't deal with it and the rest just don't care. I am one of about 10 who really care, want to make it strong but there is only strength in numbers. Our reps are laid back and like someone already mentioned, are in cozy with management so nothing gets done and the hospital violates the contract everyday but when the nurses do nothing about it...the hospital gets away with it...once again. I do not know what to do. I'm tired of being a member of this local unit.I feel like I'm policing the unit when I work. Our contract states we cannot strike, only picket so the hospital knows we will stay no matter how bad things get. It is a one hospital town so they have a lot of leverage. I'm just not sure what to do to make it better.
I know all about the website. It is my website.
How to make things better? What is the problem? How can a union make it better? It is the staff and management that can "make it better". Working together, talking together, meeting together side by side. Professional to Professional.
I do not know where you live, I deal with the California Nurses Association so I know what they try to promise. They tell nurses that they will form committees, professional practice councils and the like. What they do not provide is nurses who will sit on those committees, nurses who care and are effective and assertive communicators. If you did not have it before the union came you will not have it after you vote the union in. Unions do not provide caring and effective staff or management. They already have to be there. If the word gets out that it sucks to work at your hospital then all the union promised pay raises in the world will not get good staffing. It will just get a revolving door of travelors and registry who will collect a paycheck and move on when their contract is up. What will a new union do that your current union cannot? All the same faces will still be there.
So, back to where I started. Decertify the union, work directly with management and your peers to achieve your goals. I know it can be done. Come work with me, I would love to work with another professional who cares.
I have a question for those in unions. Please forgive my ignorance. How transparent are the finances? Do you get an accounting of where your $$ are spent? I just ask because that was a sticking point a friend of mine had at a union organizing meeting. (Years ago, different industry, in Oklahoma) He asked where their money goes and never could get a straight answer. It should be simple, we get $3X dollars from dues and we spend $X for salaries, $X for supplies, and $X for lobbiests. $X+$X+$X=$3X
So, do you know where your money goes? Thanks.
You can find out how they spend their money through the Department of Labor. The form they file is called an LM2. You can call and they will tell you how to look it up on their web site...Good luck!
It's really very interesting...most unions spend less that 2 dollars ayear on per member on contract negotiations and greivance adjustment...the rest goes to lobbying and organizing new members etc...
It's really very interesting...most unions spend less that 2 dollars ayear on per member on contract negotiations and greivance adjustment...the rest goes to lobbying and organizing new members etc...
This is so typical. First you guys complain that unions are only out for their own self interest. Then you complain that they spend too much money on lobbying.
That lobbying, btw, got the first ratio law in this country passed, which benefits all nurses in California ... not just union nurses. And that money also paid for lawyers to defend the law in court multiple times. If they hadn't spent that money, we would not have a ratio law today.
By this logic I suppose the union should only have focused on negotiating ratios in their own contracts for their own members ... rather than lobbying for a law that benefits non-union nurses as well.
C'mon ... you guys have some legitimate criticisms of unions but, let's give some credit where credit is due here.
This is so typical. First you guys complain that unions are only out for their own self interest. Then you complain that they spend too much money on lobbying.
That lobbying, btw, got the first ratio law in this country passed, which benefits all nurses in California ... not just union nurses. And that money also paid for lawyers to defend the law in court multiple times. If they hadn't spent that money, we would not have a ratio law today.
By this logic I suppose the union should only have focused on negotiating ratios in their own contracts for their own members ... rather than lobbying for a law that benefits non-union nurses as well.
C'mon ... you guys have some legitimate criticisms of unions but, let's give some credit where credit is due here.
That is all well and good in California but up here in po dung Montana(poverty with a view), we don't even have an acuity system at this hospital. My union has not brought up discussing ratios. That will be the day. I am in the process of finding out just where my money goes. If there was some legislation regarding working conditions for nurses, it would be money well spent. I do not think there is any legislation going on here.
I live in a coal mining state where the United Mine Workers is very strong. Yes miners make good money but look at all the safety issues and
mining disasters that are occurring just recently. How much money is worth the safety of even one miner and why over the years hasn't the union been able to negotiate for better safety regulations for miners? I don't think unions , based on the past performance of many unions, are in the best interest of nursing or miners. They may be able to get us better pay in order to pay union dues but they would be ineffective in handling other crisis in nursing such as staffing issues.
That is all well and good in California but up here in po dung Montana(poverty with a view), we don't even have an acuity system at this hospital. My union has not brought up discussing ratios. That will be the day. I am in the process of finding out just where my money goes. If there was some legislation regarding working conditions for nurses, it would be money well spent. I do not think there is any legislation going on here.
And that's a legitimate criticism of unions. Some unions aren't as effective as others and, if they're not effective then, obviously, there's no point in having them.
I've had union jobs and non union jobs and a bad union is a million times better than no union.
The antiunion people seem to be in two groups: first, unions are for sweaty guys in wifebeater shirts and second, unions just add a layer of bureaucracy to an already overly bureaucratic system.
The first is laughable, of course, since women have had unions, too, most notably the ILGWU. The second is certainly true from management's perspective. Suddenly they're presented with a bureaucracy dedicated to protecting the rights of their workers and correcting workplace abuses. Oh, the horror!
There's a third group, the kneejerk antisocialists who hate everything that isn't corporate, but they're statistically negligible.
Seriously, though, I think nursing unions would be much more popular among everyone if we called them guilds.
We won't be taken seriously as a profession until we do organize in some form. We'll continue to be the first place management looks to when they're in a cost cutting mood and the last place they look when they're finding ways to salvage the resulting reputation as an unsafe facility.
Specializes in Happily semi-retired; excited for the whole whammy.
I must say, though, that part of the reason there are so many mine tragedies is that mines are inherently unsafe. That doesn't mean that all safety precautions shouldn't be taken. It just strikes me as a bit unreasonable to draw clear inferences about the effectiveness of unions based solely on the fact that accidents happen in mines.
Sherwood
223 Posts
You are allowed to "fire" your union, and vote in a new one. In case no one ever told you that. If you are not happy with them, when you contract is expiring, petition the NLRB to vote out you union, and vote in NNOC.
Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Spokane, Washington
"Fire" your union or actually to Decertify the union is much harder than you make it seem. Once the union catches wind of a decertification drive the wheels start turning and the pressure begins. Pro-union nurses start whispering behind your back, flyers appear and meetings in the parking lot occur. Accusations of colluding with management are made and ulp's are filed. the process becomes filled with anger, distortions of the truth and outright lies. Some would rather just quit and move on then put up with it all.
You do not have to be a member of the union to keep your job. You must continue to pay dues or the union will have you fired (http://k.b5z.net/i/u/6011029/i/CNA_Dues_increase_and_collections.pdf ) and Nurses at St Johns Hospital went to court and lost trying to avoid paying dues ( http://k.b5z.net/i/u/6011029/i/St_Johs_8thcourt.pdf ) ( http://www.stopunions.com/updates ) Unless you live in a "Right to work state". If you do not agree with your unions policies or politics but do not or cannot leave for another job then you can resign membership but must still pay union dues. If enough nurses resign membership it can effectively gut the unions power. If enough of you band together and can get your points accross effectively you can deauthorize the union which will allow the union to remain but make membership and dues payments a choice rather than a mandate. Decertification removes the union completly. This link will give you more info http://www.stopunions.com/links
Sherwood