Geri-psych?

Specialties Geriatric

Published

I used to work in a seedy nonprofit Catholic nursing home, and quitting was one of the smartest things I've ever done. One thing has lingered on my mind: Where does LTC care end and geri-psych begin? Keem in mind that I don't know squat about geri-psych.

I took care of some very violent residents with behavioral problems and even mental illnesses. There were several violent residents. some of who would scream about their delusions (one woman would scream and panic every day that her sister was being murdered down the hall and that we had to save her, crying till she vomited). The most extreme case was a severe schizophrenic who left scars on every CNA who worked on her. In addition to being an extremely paranoid schizophrenic, she was a spoiled brat who would hit, cuss at, and throw things at anyone who came near her except the charge nurses, social workers, and administrators, whom she would act sweet as pie around and blame us for molesting her and other hogwash. When reporting her behavior, we were told that we'd simply have to keep trying and that we'd have to be patient with her. Patient? Even the most seasoned CNAs had to talk to her about 20 minutes and play along with her delusions and never, ever go a step above her (a brief change usually took 30 minutes and being hit was inevitable). She definately didn't belong in a regular LTC facility (I was jsut a CNA and I could see that), but money talked.

Do most nursing homes let in people who are in need of trained psych staff? I swear, this is so reminscent of my dad's teacher stories of kids who were mainstreamed depite severe problems and created nothing but stress and problems for everybody yet the teachers were blamed for not being more patient and not doing their jobs right.

Specializes in Geriatric Psych, Physicians office, OB,.

Ahhhhhhh......but if they're alert/oriented x 3, they CAN be held liable for their own actions. I know a CNA who pressed charges against a resident because the resident stabbed her with a nail file (yes, the resident did her own nail care, a/ox3) and the CNA retalliated with a lawsuit. And the nursing home let her off for sick leave. Got damages; pain and suffering, and lost wages. It all depends on just how alert and oriented they are.

Isn't that a little like the way society wants to "blame" the victim for being raped or blame the victim's clothing, location, reputation, etc?

Demetia not with standing, some people are just mean and as they age they can become meaner and use age as the excuse. I have seen patients who are completely alert and fully oriented x 4 and they will cuss the socks off you and pinch or hit or spit.

Some behaviors are allowed and is not always a matter of them having dementia or the aging process, or of a patient having psyche issues... although behaving anti social is an issue.

IMHO staff should not have to be abused and then blamed for the abuse.

Being a resident of a nursing home isn't supposed to give rights to commit acts that weren't ok before they entered the nursing home. Assault and battery is assault and battery, regardless. It should be up to a judge, not the director of nursing or the administrator, to decide if the perpetrator is legally responsible. Interestingly, though, if a resident hits staff, nothing happens, but if a resident hits another resident, the police are automatically called and the state is notified. Gee, where does that leave staff on the food chain?

I'm glad to be leaving long-term care (again), and hope I stay away for good this time.

I agree with anndoodle. I also work at a geri-psych unit in an acute care hospital. At times we look like a dumping ground for LTC. They can come up with some of the most minute reasons for sending a patient to geri-psych. Like a little old man in his 80's-90's making a "pass" at a staff member or another patient etc. Another problem is the patient's that have reached a point of dementia that you could throw every medication in the book at them but you aren't going to change a thing. Ann, a big amen about the medication issue. We keep a patient until they are stable (doesn't mean cured) send them back on medications and then the office of LTC dictates that the NH has to try them off this medication? Get real - what is the point of sending them to a geri-psych unit and then not keeping up the treatment plan that was found effective. Also, I think alot of people thing that geri-psych units are LTC for the demented, those with mental disorders, etc. They aren't. They are acute care to stabalize so that they can return to whatever their normal living situation is to be. Big problem is that not enough LTC facilities provide units where the staff are trained to care for these patients. And it does take more training than dealing with the nondemented old person.

Specializes in Gerontology, Med surg, Home Health.

What an interesting post! Problem #1: CMS guidelines mandate a trial reduction of psych meds at least every 3 months. So unless we get the MD to write a detailed progress note as to why we aren't going to reduce, we are obligated to try.

Problem #2: sometimes hard to tell the difference between dementia and psychosis...and my favorite--dementia with psychotic features. We are expected to take care of the "pleasantly confused" 89 year old woman and at the same time take care of her psychotic/demented roomate.

Violent behaviors, sexually inappropriate behaviors, screaming, vulgar language...we are expected to be able to deal with these residents on a long term dementia unit because there is no other place for these kinds of people to go...and now we are getting younger and younger mentally disturbed patients who don't belong in a SNF but,again, they have no place to go.

Why is it reportable to DPH that one of our little old men touched the breast of a little old lady? Did she scream? no...did it bother her? no...does she remember it? no...another regulation in an already over-regulated industry.

If I hit you, it's my fault...if I get hit by a resident, it's my fault, and if one resident hits another resident, somehow that is my fault too.

We allow ourselves to be treated this way and it won't change until there is no one left to care for anyone.

You are right CapeCod - we are all stuck in the cycles that are set-up. Even in acute care some of the patients end up in the psychiatric intensive care unit with much younger and sicker mental patients because they cannot be watched close enough on a unit with other elderly patients that can be hurt when they hit or throw things. I guess it all comes down to where would be the appropriate place for these patients? I think that CMS needs to rethink some of their requirements. There is a big difference between "chemical restraints" and medication that helps a person function at the highest level possible for them. We just all have to work together and hope that solutions to this questions come and are listened to by the ones making the "rules".

Specializes in LTC,Hospice/palliative care,acute care.

Our DON has refused admission a few times.Recently we have had 4 residents with major behavioral problems and often had to resort to 1:1 to keep everyone safe until we could get their meds tweaked or get them out of there ...3 actually came from home and their families failed to disclose the true nature of their loved one's behaviors.Can't really blame them-they were probably at the end of their reserves and were scared we wouldn't take their famiy member.One of the wives had her arm in a cast,lacs and bruises on her face-she told admissions she had been in an auto accident.We found out later that she was covering up for her husband- All of these residents were eventually transferred to a LTC geri-psych facility but it took time-they knocked the crap out of many of us and tore the place up.Literally threw furniture,tore mirrors and pictures off the walls....The other residents were scared witless.It was truly sad...The worst is when the family expects to come in to visit the morning after the admission and find Mom up,dressed and coiffed at 8am....Despite the fact that Mom had had her days and nights turned round at home and has not been bathed for many months prior to admission ....Sadly most LTC's here are not set up for this type of resident-You've got to have a real dementia unit with specially trained staff and a limited number of resident.I work in the county home(used to be called the "poor house"....We have a few large locked units and we tend to have very little insight into treating the demented...I don't see it changing any time soon....

Specializes in EC, IMU, LTAC.

Wow... reason #43489 why I plan to take things into my own hands while I still have the mental capacity to do so.

Specializes in psychiatry,geropsych,LTC/SNF, hospice.

I've worked geropsych for going on two years now and am consistently amazed that it's the 4 foot nothing, 80 pound, 90 year old woman with the sweet cabbage patch doll face that beats the crap out of you the most.

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