New Diversity Criteria for Admission...what to make of that? - page 4
OK all, I just got a letter from my school last night that states they are instituting a new criteria of "diversity" for admission to all programs. I am applying for ADN in August for the January... Read More
Feb 16, '04Joined: Nov '03; Posts: 158; Likes: 1diversity : if it is race related, could you not look back through your family tree and find at least some diversity? I consider myself white, but my grandfather is full Cherokee. So that makes me 1/4. Well now, on the other side of the family I could find more diversity.... It is there, you just have to find it and use it.
Feb 16, '04Occupation: CDU nurse Joined: Sep '03; Posts: 4,001; Likes: 542Quote from lizzok that's another problem i have with this. If you are going to lower standards for "minorities" then why is management TELLING PEOPLE THIS. What in the world was the dmv lady thinking telling Liz that she had to take a harder test than a minority to get her drivers license?! Do they not see the inherent resentment and other problems that this is going to cause? do they not see the assumptions that people can start to make about ALL minorities in certain positions? do they not see the seeds of inferiority being planted in the minds of minorities who hear these things and start to think maybe they CAN"T make it on their own and maybe they AREN"T as smart or qualified as their white counterparts. I'm not saying that I agree with AA in its current state. But in this post I AM taking issue with the fact that it seems SO MANY PEOPLE are told things that are SPECIFICALLY MEANT TO CAUSE DIVISION and RESENTMENT! If companies are going to apply AA in its current form they at least need to be responsible and protect the privacy of others. :angryfireOk, well, that's what the DMV told me when I first came here. But maybe it's changed since then.
Feb 16, '04Occupation: Operating Room Nurse Specialty: 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER ; From: US ; Joined: Jun '03; Posts: 17,036; Likes: 1,006A DMV test that's easer for people because they are minorities? GEE, that's SOOOOOO 2004-ish
Feb 17, '04Occupation: Registered Nurse Joined: May '03; Posts: 937; Likes: 32I have to reply to this post because my nursing program is also diversity based. However, diversity does not only mean race, but financial backroud. For example the nursing program must accept so many people on government assistance because the government is paying for their schooling (does not mean that they are black, white red or purple). This is unfair. There is no way around it. In my nursing program, you must maintain a 2.5 GPA or you get put on academic probation and possibly loose your grants. Myself being white had to have the 3.5 GPA to get accepted into the program. On the other hand the people that got accepted with the "diversity card" whether it was because of their race, socioeconomic staus or whatever was accepted with a 2.5 GPA. I'm sorry, but if thats not discrimination than what is? Many average white students with a 3.0 GPA did not get in, but there were 4 people with 2.5-2.9 GPA's that got in (i know this because one of my fellow classmates works in the admission office).
I also work with a person who is black. I could care less about her color, but she brings up the race card constantly. There are times when I have left work early because of class (30 minutes at the most), and she now leaves early all the time. When my boss explained to her that the hospital was helping to pay my tuition which granted me leaving early she cried race, and now nothing is said to her. This girl has also made it known that she has sued her last two employers because of racial issues. As long as you do your job I don't care what race or sex you are. My work does make race an issue she does. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and she now gets away with murder. We also have a required uniform. She wears a red bandana on her head to work (not part of the required uniform), in a hospital setting mind you and no one in management will tell her to take it off.
Feb 17, '04Joined: Jul '00; Posts: 11,351; Likes: 387Jen, what on earth is someone at the admission's office doing telling you what other people's GPAs are?! That is extremely unprofessional to say the least. I hope she doesn't gossip like this when she graduates and becomes a nurse....
On another note, do people really think that GPAs are unbiased? Your GPA depends on your work ethic, but it also depends on the courses you take, the school you are in, the professors you have, etc. If someone can show that a person with a 3.0 will be a better nurse than someone with a 2.9, I would support that as being the only criteria used to determine who gets admitted. As it is, I think it's just one thing that should be considered, not the only thing.
Feb 17, '04Occupation: Registered Nurse Joined: May '03; Posts: 937; Likes: 32The fellow classmate is a dear friend of mine, and I am the only one she told. She worked at the admissions office part-time over the summer. In all honesty, she didn't have to tell me. I knew anyway, because I had pre-reqs with a few of the students, and they barely came to class, and made C's in the classes I had with them. Needless to say I was surprised when I saw them in orientation, and not others that did better and I asked her and was sworn to secretcy not to tell. This does not mean that if they pass they won't make good nurses. My point is that if I had to have a 3.5 to get accepted, then why was a 2.5 O.K. for them to have? I do believe that there is more to it than grades, but if a school is going to set certian criteria for certain students based on diversity, it's not fair.... So, needless to say at my school a different GPA is set for each group, and X amount of students are accepted based on that. My school accepted 60 students out of 200 applicants. So many traditional, so many non-traditional, so many high school seniors, and so many with a low socioeconomic status. So basically a person on government assistance with a 2.5 GPA would get accepted in their category, and a average non-traditional student with a 3.2 GPA would not get accepted. It's still not fair, some of these people will be on waiting lists forever.
Feb 17, '04Occupation: ER junkie Specialty: Emergency ; Joined: Dec '03; Posts: 59I find it so interesting that in the 2000's we are still dealing with these issues. I'm not sure how your school plans to implement "diversity". Many times the application of the concept can lose sight of the intent. However, the intent is still a good one. I don't agree with dropping the standards or bending the rules but we do have to look at the fact that patients are coming from assorted backgrounds. Shouldn't some effort be made for them to see people treating them that they can relate to? This is not always (or at least, it shouldn't be) a case of letting some minorities slide in.
As far as me and my experience, this diversity thing has been just another hurdle I've had to overcome. How? Right now I am a black male in an RN program. (Needless to say there ain't many of us. In fact, I have yet to find another one anywhere in my area!) Well anyway, this whole diversity issue has given rise to a brand new stereotype - the minority that wouldn't have made it except for the quota. I have dealt with this stereotype from high school on up into the real world. You see, pretty much all of my life I have competed in an environment where I was the odd man out. (Don't worry, my scores have NEVER been adjusted nor have needed to be.) Generally I have gained the respect of my peers once they have realized that every black person wasn't just riding the coattails of affirmative action. I regularly get put in a position where I have to show that I "know my stuff".
I think that is the major wrong. Instead of just coming in and doing my thing like everyone else, I have to do more to justify my presence.
Feb 17, '04Joined: Jul '00; Posts: 11,351; Likes: 387Jen, I hope your friend knows that just telling one person and swearing them to secrecy is still breaking confidentiality. Maintaining confidentiality is a one hundred percent or nothing type of deal. If you gossip about patients like this, you can lose your lisence.
Just a tip from someone who has seen this type of thing come back to bite a nurse in the butt. Take it for what it's worth, I would hate to see that type of behaviour ruin someone who would be a good nurse.
Feb 18, '04Occupation: Registered Nurse Specialty: 7 year(s) of experience in Med/Surg. ; Joined: Jan '04; Posts: 446; Likes: 48Quote from tdg_rnTdg, Unfortunately that stereotype is caused by Affirmative Action. Just read many of the above posts and you'll see how many people have been passed over for jobs, school, etc. by someone with lesser qualifications/scores, etc. because their school or office had to meet some quota. It's an incredibly unfair system and needs to be done away with.Well anyway, this whole diversity issue has given rise to a brand new stereotype - the minority that wouldn't have made it except for the quota..
I mentioned in an earlier post that a friend of mine who is black was one of 3 remaining people in my office after a company restructoring - I lost my job with a bunch of other people. Although she was indeed the most qualified for that position - she always felt that they kept her simply because she was the only black person in the office and it would look bad if they got rid of her. If there were no such thing as "quotas" she would have known for a fact that she was kept because of her qualifications. So what a shame that she never felt deserving of the job she had.
On another side of this issue. My husband has worked Respiratory for years in an NICU. One of his co-workers was black - they worked nights together in the Unit. The co-worker also had a day job at another hospital in the area and would use his night-time job to "sleep". The Nurses found him sleeping all over the place - in the waiting room, doctors lounge, storage room, etc. - I'm not talking about sleeping on his break - it was when he was supposed to be working. He had already filed "racial discrimination charges when he worked in Adult Care - and that case was pending" - so, when the NICU Nurses complained about him sleeping all night - they were told to just put up with him. They kept complaining to Admin. that they needed him to be "Awake" while he was at work - one of the Nurses even took a polaroid picture of him sleeping in the waiting room - he complained that it was a violation of his privacy and filed another case with the hospital - interesting since he was supposed to be working at the time caring for very sick premature infants. Just my opinion - but anyone else would have been out on their rear-end for that...
Anyways, my Husband ended up doing both of their jobs most of the time. He said many times he'd be taking care of one baby - a Nurse would come in and say I need you in room 2. He'd tell them he was busy and to go get Ulysses - they said he was asleep, their hands were tied and they needed someone NOW!!!! So old Ulysses (who eventually earned the name "Useless" was making about $50,000.00 a year to SLEEP at this hospital and probably the same $$$ at his day job) - got away with this for a very long time because he had the hospital scared to death of another racial discrimination law suit and the negative publicity it might generate. He eventually made some huge med error and lost his job because of that.
There are many sides to this issue - different people see it different ways.
The way I see it is - if my white child and a minority child are in the same class with the "same teacher" - being taught "the same things" - there is no reason in the world that they can't both make the same grades and do fantastic if they both pay attention and put the same amount of work into it.
Until the days comes when you can walk into an employers office, hand them your resume and they don't see the color of your skin - but your accomplishments on that piece of paper - it will never be fair to anyone on either side of this issue. Amen.....
Feb 18, '04Joined: Sep '03; Posts: 103; Likes: 2Why oh why has affirmation action become synonymous with black people? Historically the biggest benefactors of AA have been white women. Why is that fact often hidden?
"WHO HAS BENEFITED FROM AFFIRMATIVE ACTION: White men and women have benefited more than racial and ethnic minorities in state hiring and under alternative admissions criteria to the Universities. White women are the largest beneficiaries, while white men have benefited as veterans, the disabled, and people over 40. This benefit is particularly important for women, since many families are now two-paycheck families or are single paycheck families supported by women. Attacking women’s ability to earn a ood paycheck is an attack on families"
Feb 18, '04Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '03; Posts: 4,389; Likes: 153Quote from MyReign1Well, if it's supposed to help white women, it certainly didn't help me. I lost a job to a black guy, and I was told the company wanted to hire more minorities. Being female wasn't of any concern to them, probably because there are lots of women in the workplace now.Why oh why has affirmation action become synonymous with black people? Historically the biggest benefactors of AA have been white women. Why is that fact often hidden?
Every affirmative action program I'm seen pretty much focused blacks. Maybe that's why people tend to equate affirmative action with blacks. I dunno.
Feb 18, '04Occupation: new grad Joined: Jun '03; Posts: 2,637; Likes: 18I know that AA has it's problems, but I wholeheartedly agree that it is a necessary evil. However, it would be better if there was a system that could evaluate all candidates without regard to race. Unfortunately, this doesn't exist in America today. I mean, really, who wouldn't be ALL FOR hiring the most qualified candidate? BUt wouldn't it suck if you were not able to obtain qualifications because of racial barriers???????????
I stand by my original thought.......if you are not a minority, it is hard for you to understand the depth of descrimination in America today.
Not saying that non-minorities DON'T experience discrimination, because I've seen it happen, but it is worse with minorities in my experience.
Feb 18, '04Joined: Sep '03; Posts: 103; Likes: 2Quote from SusanNCDo you honestly believe that all it takes is for two children to be on equal footing is for them to be in the same class? You know better than that. You're a nurse, put on your critical thinking hat. Everything is not that simple. Putting race aside for a minute, two white children in the same class wouldn't be on an equal footing if their home lives aren't equal. Maybe the other child's parents are uneducated. Maybe that child comes from an extremely poor home. Maybe that child is hungry and the last thing on his mind is school. If the child is black, he is two times more likely to come from poverty. And, where there is poverty there is generally a lack of education. If the parents' aren't educated, most likely education is not a priority in that household as it may be in yours. It's a vicious cycle. Look at some of the projects they show on television. If I lived in one of those I would probably be too busy, praying that I make it through the night, to study.The way I see it is - if my white child and a minority child are in the same class with the "same teacher" - being taught "the same things" - there is no reason in the world that they can't both make the same grades and do fantastic if they both pay attention and put the same amount of work into it.
Don't believe that because a child goes to the same school they come from the same background. I come from a poor family and I've gone to the best schools in the state since 1st grade. I was able to make it because education was a priority for my mother. In fact, I think she may have stressed it too much. I'm a career student and proud of it .