HIPAA violation or not..?

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There is a huge ordeal in my clinical group. I have managed to stay out of it (thankfully I wasn't there when it happened and haven't been forced into getting involved), but was wondering what you guys thought about this.

The week before last in clinical, one of the students went to the nurses desk, called a friend, and told them that their step-mother was in the hospital with pneumonia and it looked pretty bad. The student did this in front of 2 students, a nurse (or more?), a doctor, and the unit secretary.

She was turned in for violating HIPAA and was told by the hospital that she was not welcome back. Our clinical instructor told her to go home. She was later notified by the department that she had been dropped from the program.

She appealed, of course, and continued to attend class.

Her clinical review was last Thursday and this morning she was in class for our test... so I guess she is still in..

what are your thoughts on this?

Gee from the majority of responses getting kicked out of the hospital was way to lenient she should have been tarred and feathered. Look, none of us know the circumstances and I wonder if the event was truly investigated. Did the patient give the student permission to notify the stepdaughter? Yes HIPPA was violated but unless every patient throughtout the country is in a private room HIPPA is violated every day in every hospital setting. Curtains do not provide a sound barrier. Interviewing a patient in ear shot of anyone else not involved in that patients care is a violation of HIPPA. I worked in an endoscopy unit and every day I admitted someone for a test I was in violation of HIPPA. Patients sat next to each other during the admission process and none of them to my knowledge was deaf. They were privvy to all that was discussed. Altought this is an example of a blatant HIPPA violation did anyone take the time to talk with this student to find out her side? Gee I bet if she was a med student she wouldn't have been banned from the hospital. And as pointed out by working under the license of her nursing instructor the nursing instructor should have been held just as accountable for all of those reaching for the jugular.

So true, no one knows the actual circumstance. It is somewhat of a hypothetical situation as neither the name of the student, the school, the patient name, the instructors name, the name of the hospital, nor the name of the relative called have all been omitted from the scenario.

It is a fine teaching tool, however, for those of us in healthcare to instruct us on the need to keep patient info between care providers and those to whom the patient has given written permission.

Furthermore, if the law is violated with such impunity, maybe it should be repealed or enforced.

first of all, hipaa, the health insurance portability and accountability act of 1996, pertains to healthcare information transmitted electronically, as in over the internet, fax lines or telephone lines. it specifically has to do with information in patient's charts that is shared with insurance companies and third party payers of the patient's medical bill.

secondly, confidentiality...is different from hipaa.

i disagree with these statements.

hipaa covers portability of health insurance. it also encourages electronic medical recordkeeping. because electronic healthcare records present a new opportunity for erosion of patient privacy, congess established accountability for protecting privacy of patient health information. all of this is covered under hipaa. specifically, "the hipaa privacy rule for the first time created national standards to protect individuals' medical records and other personal health information." daytonite may have concluded that hipaa pertained only to protected health information transmitted electronically because the privacy rule part of hipaa came about because of the push for electronic health care records.

there is an excellent web site at united states department of health and human services. http://healthprivacy.answers.hhs.gov/cgi-bin/hipaa.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=187&p_created=1040312552&p_sid=iipbxhki&p_accessibility=0&p_lva=487&p_sp=cf9zcmnoptemcf9zb3j0x2j5pwrmbhqmcf9ncmlkc29ydd0mcf9yb3dfy250pti3mizwx3byb2rzpszwx2nhdhm9mczwx3b2pszwx2n2pszwx3nlyxjjaf90exblpwfuc3dlcnmuc2vhcmnox25sjnbfcgfnzt0x&p_li=&p_topview=1

faq's include:

may a hospital or other covered entity notify a patient's family member or other person that the patient is at their facility?

can health care providers have confidential conversations, even if they might be overheard?

may physicians offices use patient sign-in sheets or call out the names of their patients in their waiting rooms?

careful reading at this site will dispel many of the myths roaming this thread...

Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
Gee from the majority of responses getting kicked out of the hospital was way to lenient she should have been tarred and feathered. Look, none of us know the circumstances and I wonder if the event was truly investigated. Did the patient give the student permission to notify the stepdaughter? Yes HIPPA was violated but unless every patient throughtout the country is in a private room HIPPA is violated every day in every hospital setting. Curtains do not provide a sound barrier. Interviewing a patient in ear shot of anyone else not involved in that patients care is a violation of HIPPA. I worked in an endoscopy unit and every day I admitted someone for a test I was in violation of HIPPA. Patients sat next to each other during the admission process and none of them to my knowledge was deaf. They were privvy to all that was discussed. Altought this is an example of a blatant HIPPA violation did anyone take the time to talk with this student to find out her side? Gee I bet if she was a med student she wouldn't have been banned from the hospital. And as pointed out by working under the license of her nursing instructor the nursing instructor should have been held just as accountable for all of those reaching for the jugular.

You are dead right...HIPPA is essentially broken every day, and in many cases, it is because of the administration not supporting the needs that nurses have to create a therapeutic environment. I work in a cardiac clinic as an LPN, and while the providers have almost all of the exam rooms, we nurses only have one exam room to do vital signs, do EKG's, give injections and discharge people from. We have an endocrine clinic in the morning, which spills over into cardiac in the afternoon, with only a one hour window between the two clinics. Therefore, we are doing vital signs with cardiac while sending home endocrine patients. Also, because of the lack of space, I have given injections in the clean utility room and had to block the door with chairs so that the patient is not accidently exposed. When the cardiologists arrive and do not at least see 8 charts ready for them, they are calling nursing administration to complain, so, we have to pull a curtain between the patient receiving an EKG and the patient having vital signs done, and as you mentioned, curtains are not sound proof. We have physicians that will walk into the one room we have, and pull up information on our computer on one patient while another one is being discharged, and the doctor will question me about this case, saying the person's name, diagnosis and all. I worked in this same clinic as a CNA before I became a nurse, so, I am aware that nursing has fought hard to try to create a more therapeutic and private atmosphere for our patients, but this has fallen on deaf ears thus far.

Personally, based on the information the the original poster stated, it may sound like a HIPPA violation, and I would not have done this, however, I am glad to see that she was not thrown out of the program because it is true, we don't know all of the circumstances, and I also know from my personal experience, that not all schools (mine is one of them), that was not explicit in explaining HIPPA nor did they have us sign any contract telling us that we were committed to honoring it. I knew about HIPPA because I already worked in a hospital. Had I not, things may have been different.

Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
So true, no one knows the actual circumstance. It is somewhat of a hypothetical situation as neither the name of the student, the school, the patient name, the instructors name, the name of the hospital, nor the name of the relative called have all been omitted from the scenario.

It is a fine teaching tool, however, for those of us in healthcare to instruct us on the need to keep patient info between care providers and those to whom the patient has given written permission.

Furthermore, if the law is violated with such impunity, maybe it should be repealed or enforced.

That is true, we are only hearing one side of the situation. What I try and be careful of is being completely judgemental in situations with nursing, because we never know if we may be inadvertantly placed in an odd situation ourselves. And, bottom line, I can agree with you. I appreciate this thread as well as many other ones because it IS a teaching tool for us to proceed with caution.

I grew up in a city in New Hampshire- fairly small to national standards but the local paper used to have a community section that listed hospital admissions and discharges. I remember this practice through the 70's and into the 80's- not sure when exactly it stopped. They would put what they were in for sometimes too. "Lennie Patient was admitted to Local Hospital on 9/18/76 for a gallbladder surgery" "Mrs. X. was admitted for complications related to her fourth pregnancy"

Anyone else remember stuff like that?

But... when I had my kids in 1987 I had to sign a permission form for them to put the birth announcement in the paper.

Specializes in L&D, medsurg,hospice,sub-acute.

We do, as a health care culture, break the HIPPA regs everyday. And we have people who forget to renew thier licenses, make medication errors that kill people--or could have, give report and don't realize someone is listening who shouldn't be (happens a lot in our facility--no separate place to give report), deal with profession drug addicts,,,etc., etc....--there was recently a line on this site--can you believe??--about people who put Percocet crushed through a central line---.where is lthe line between what is forgiven and a teaching tool and what is not? And for a student--we should be more forgiving and nurturing--for all the people that do more/just as horrendous things with bad intentions, this student had good intentions--even though they were misplaced--and she should have spoken to the woman first, and gotten someone to docuament consent---but please--if we fired every nurse every time they made an error, we would have no nurses.

oh my, I can't believe a nursing student did this. You have to get the patients permission to inform any family member or friends of their condition. She has clearly violated the HIPPA laws. Even if she is a new nursing student HIPPA laws are usually the first thing the nursing instructors go over. She should of been kicked out of the program and she should of written an apology letter to the hosptial becuase they could have been sued for her miss doings.

Sorry for this uncalled for correction, "should have," not "should of."

Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.

Great, another episode of "Grammar COPS." :redlight: (That is an incomplete sentence.)

Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.
it's not anyone else's duty or right or obligation to notify family members of anything health-related unless given permission or specifically asked

This is true, HIPAA or not.

The concern of one relative to another person in the family is greater than that HIPAA law! I can not just find fault in this case since she is still a student and has a lot to learn. She needs our guidance and understanding, not condemnation, as she needs to understand HIPAA. O come on guys, have a heart!

Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.

Nursing student or not, HIPAA or not, most people with common sense know that this is not their place to call someone (on the nursing desk phone) and say "Hey did you know your stepmom is here" without asking Stepmom if it was ok first. Or even the nurse taking care of Stepmom. Who's to say Stepdaughter was even the emergency contact for this pt. Who's to say Stepmom wanted anyone to know.

Student or not, that's overstepping big time.

Specializes in Med/Surg, Tele.
We do, as a health care culture, break the HIPPA regs everyday. And we have people who forget to renew thier licenses, make medication errors that kill people--or could have, give report and don't realize someone is listening who shouldn't be (happens a lot in our facility--no separate place to give report), deal with profession drug addicts,,,etc., etc....--there was recently a line on this site--can you believe??--about people who put Percocet crushed through a central line---.where is lthe line between what is forgiven and a teaching tool and what is not? And for a student--we should be more forgiving and nurturing--for all the people that do more/just as horrendous things with bad intentions, this student had good intentions--even though they were misplaced--and she should have spoken to the woman first, and gotten someone to docuament consent---but please--if we fired every nurse every time they made an error, we would have no nurses.

I agree,I am amazed at the condemnation and judgement that is going on here, I hope not one of you will ever make a mistake in your nursing career. I come from Europe and when I first came to the US , I was perplexed to see how quickly everyone get sewed for everything around here. But I see that even amongst themselves in a profession there is just no forgiveness . Did she make a mistake? Yes, do we know the whole story? NO! We should not jump to conclusion and even if I made that mistake, I sure hope that I would be able , especially as a student get a sec. chance. Look around this site, what about med errors, aren't those way more dangerous, no one cried there: fire her, fire her. HOpe you guys never have a brain fart or something like that.

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