Don't know if I've ever posted before today (been a member for a while), but a post in another thread prompted me to respond to it and to post this. I've spent the last few years preparing for a career change into nursing and am in my first semester as a BSN student, and I'm irritated. I am NOT bashing nursing as a profession, but I am dismayed at the constant whining and complaining as well as the lack of any trace of intellectual curiosity that I have found in my short time around the profession among many BUT NOT ALL nurses. The #1 complaint among nurses that I have seen is a lack of respect by other health care professionals. You want to know why there is a lack of respect? Read on. In my short time, I've been around amazing nurses (bright, dedicated and excellent in what they do), but there are far too many that should be doing some else. Here's why nursing gets less respect than it should...
1) Constant whining. Nursing school is too hard, floor nursing is too hard, etc. News flash: most professions are really hard. Nursing isn't special in that regard. Medicine is brutal. IT, my former career, is cut throat. School teachers often have a miserable jobs. Cops work bad shifts and put their lives on the line. The list goes on an on. People that whine about nursing would whine no matter what career they are in.
2) The nursing culture. The claim of nursing being a "caring profession" (as if med techs, rad techs, RT's, etc. aren't caring), yet there is constant bashing of "bad" patients that are "noncompliant." In addition, many nurses go out of their way to humiliate students and new grads, talk about each other behind their backs, call physicians and other providers incompetent, and are in general rude, sour and bitter. Yet nursing is supposed to be the "caring" profession.
3) The nursing culture part II: Running around the hospital with balloons, teddy bears, flowers, whatever on your scrubs says to your colleagues, "I don't have a brain."
4) Nursing education. Learning to "diagnose" a patient with "Ineffective coping mechanisms related to disturbed transpersonal energy field" sounds like a bunch of hooey to a lot of people. Why? Because it is. It too screams, "I don't have a brain." Thankfully such stuff is only in the textbooks and not in the real world.
5) Feminization. I have heard ad nauseum that traditionally, physicians are men, nurses are women and that accounts for much of the disrespect. I actually agree. Ironically, many more women now are entering all health fields traditionally dominated by men (pharmacy, medicine, etc.) but there's barely been an uptick in the number of men going into nursing. Why? See #3 above for starters. Here's some other reasons. The local Sigma Theta Tau chapter at my school has brown and pink for their colors. The local CC has a teddy bear wearing an 1800's nursing hat and a big heart on its (her) chest (that'll make males race to apply to the program). Which, BTW, also screams, "I don't have a brain."
6) Lack of intellectual curiosity/knowledge. See #3 and #5 as well. One of my instructors this semester (who is a licensed pediatric nurse practitioner) could not answer a question as to what a lesion is. A nurse during my clinical last week did not know the difference between a H2 antagonist and a proton pump inhibitor, yet has been nursing for 20 years. My clinical instructor (with an MSN) "corrected" me and explained that myasthenia gravis is an intestinal disorder. I'm guessing they are like the students I had in my science prereqs that hated science and were just glad to get them done so they could apply to nursing school - never mind the fact that the sciences are the foundation of all modern health care practice. Would you go to a doctor that hated or was bad at science? What about a respiratory or physical therapist? Do everyone a favor - if you hate or are bad at science, spare your future patients and find another career.
In short, there's got to be a change in nursing culture for the profession to be respected.
But if we're going to be picky, and clearly we are, I don't know that you can use 'feminisation' to refer to a traditionally female-dominated group - feminisation is the process of a man developing or assuming feminine characeristics and/or appearance.
There it is. Plain and simple.
Sarj is trying to ignore that what his diatribe is truly about is pretty obvious. I get the distinct impression that a nursing school banner is much more than just a banner to Sarj. It's like, women are Martians, nursing is Mars, and he's wondering when Neil Armstrong is going to come along and plant a big old flag into the profession - a flag depicting a big bearded manly man, atop a muscle car, holding a mighty, lithic club in one hand and scarfing down a huge plate of meat and potatoes with the other.
Personally, I like teddy bears, especially on the back of a "cute booty.";)I've never had one problem with the scenery in nursing............:devil:OH yea, I'm a steak and potatoes kind of guy also!!!!!!!!!
Who's constant whining??....that is one huge whinge right there and although you make some slightly thought-provoking and interesting points......with a little more life experience you will realise that absolutely every profession could be picked apart and analysed to pieces.....to no real avail.....it is what it is....also, instead of using a hell of alot of energy in critiquing the profession....you might want to use that to.....look after your patients and save lives.....that is what we are here for......if I was a patient I wouldn't really give a hoot whether or not she/he had a clown suit on....I just want them to look after me and make me better!.....image is not really a valid issue!....anyway good luck with your intellectualising.
1. Technically, a group that contained every nurse but one would still be a sub-set of nursing; colloquially there's a difference between referring to 'a majority,' 'many,' and 'a sub-set.' As only a small sub-set of nurses of nurses use a mathematical interpretation when reading writing aimed at a general audience, it's reasonable to assume that the term 'sub-set' would be interpreted as referring to a smaller percentage of the group than 'many,' which is why I pointed out the difference.
Talax,
You have been one of only a few that have taken the time to read and respond to what I've actually been saying instead of just hurling personal insults while ignoring what I've written, which is what most have done. However, your overzealous use of your vocabulary looks as if you feel you have to prove your intelligence (though I'm sure that's not the case). You don't need to do that, your thoughtful interaction shows that well enough on its own. It starts sounding like, "my lexicon is bigger than yours" and it detracts from the discussion. Though not intentional on your part, you are really misreading my statements now and debating me over semantics. Threads become pointless when that starts to occur (and, admittedly, I've contributed). When Merriam-Webster gets quoted, you know the thread has gotten out of hand! So, I'm out and you have the last word. :)
Oh, BTW...
Semantics: "the study of meaning. the study of linguistic development by classifying and examining changes in meaning and form." Sorry - couldn't resist.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
QUOTE=triquee;4315510]I only have one question, sarjasy...
Fess up. You're a dude, right?
Though the suggestion of such tweaks him a bit, I think he's masking that particular bit of info which has been asked several times. Either a manly man desiring to change the face of nursing in one fell post, or someone who had a really bad dream about being trapped in a Build-a-Bear outlet while the Care Bears made fun of his navy blue scrub top.
Are women being driven away from careers in the military because the olive drab coloring and camouflage print on their website is too masculine, Sarjasy? Too many tanks in their TV commercials?
Your posts are moving targets in which you respond to what would be an incorrect assumption by throwing more vague references to countless studies back at people instead of saying to them, "my entire post was about how the number one complaint of nurses is lack of respect by other healthcare professionals". If people are confused by that, it isn't their fault. Rereading the post only further confuses the issue, as you add and remove words as suits your purpose.
I think you can tell by now I don’t hold opinions back. My concern with nursing image IS related to how it is viewed by other (healthcare) professions – no need to read something into my posts that aren’t there.
Is it OK if I put a word back that changes the entire meaning of your premise so you don't continue to get those pesky responses that you feel are off-point? Ahh well. See you next month, maybe.
Though the suggestion of such tweaks him a bit, I think he's masking that particular bit of info which has been asked several times.
Yes. I get the impression that masking that specific detail is very deliberate. He very much wants his point to stand on its own (which is understandable). But if you feel you have to omit contextually relevant information in order to do so, at some point you've got to acknowledge the possibility that your point isn't strong enough to stand on its own...
This entire thread is a demonstration of how making nursing a degree profession has turned our job into a joke.
Too many people wanting to appear to have great intellects (to justify the degree requirements) when our work is hands on.
Yes, we are required to be able to think on our feet, keep up with new developments, have a rational arguement, etc.
But this entire "I'm a professional by having a degree" attitude has to go. Professional plumbers and carpenters need to complete a four year apprenticeship, keep up to date with national codes and standards, argue with other professional tradesmen, government officials, etc. But no one has ever suggested turning their apprenticeship into a degree programme.
1. You say nurses whine about the nursing profession being too hard.
Nursing is not a profession for the weak. There are many days when I leave the hospital physically and mentally drained. However, feeling exhausted doesn't mean that I'm whining about my job. I love rising to meet the challenges nurses face each day. We are expected to provide high quality holistic care to meet patients' needs on a low budget and with inadequate time, all the while dealing with patients and staff members from various backgrounds and with a broad range of personalities. Situations frequently arise that can't be addressed by looking in a policy and procedure manual, and we are expected to do more than perform simple nursing skills. We act as teachers, counselors, dieticians, makeshift chaplains, and social workers... Never any easy feat, but definitely a special calling! If I express what a difficult day it was at the hospital to a friend or family member, it's not because I'm whining. It's because I want others to recognize just how much nurses are capable of and that we are so much more than the person who checks their temperature or blindly administers a pill because it was ordered. Nobody would argue that nursing is the only difficult profession, but if you're going to become a nurse, you owe the profession the recognition it deserves.
2. You don't believe nursing has earned its reputation as the caring profession.
Have you ever been at the bedside of a mother delivering her first child, a term stillbirth, setting aside your own grief over the idea of a dead infant to lessen the pain of the experience for the patient and her family as much as possible? Have you ever been told by a teenage girl that you're the first person to ever tell her that her life has worth and that she can achieve her goals? Have you been the shoulder that was cried on when a woman with an ectopic pregnancy asks you why her ectopic pregnancy can't just be relocated to her uterus?
The reason non-compliant patients are frustrating is because we see that their decisions are hurting them, and we care. The reason seeing incompetence in other professionals is scary is because we don't want to see our patients suffer because of unsafe decisions.
Honey, don't tell me nurses don't care when you've yet to walk in our shoes. We care. I care.
There are bad apples in any profession, but we aren't all Nurse Ratched. I love teaching students and new graduates, giving patient explanations of what we're doing and guiding them through the steps they take. I support my co-workers and do what I can to help make their days easier. I have better things to do with my time than gossip about my peers; it's a hospital, not high school.
3. You think nursing apparel indicates nurses don't have a brain.
I am always newly showered with fixed hair, appropriate makeup, and clean and ironed scrubs before heading to work because I want to earn my patients' trust as a capable professional. I don't wear printed scrub tops, but that is a personal preference. My clinical abilities, knowledge base, and attitude are what show my patients I have a brain, not my clothing. Why are you so bothered by what someone else chooses to wear? Whenever anyone I care about is in the hospital, the last thing on my mind is what's on somebody's shirt.
4. You don't like nursing diagnoses.
Well, I can't argue too much with you on this one. Who does like them? You're wrong though, if you think they aren't applicable in the real world. I'd be lying if I told you that I have consciously sat down and written out full blown NANDA diagnoses on patients since my undergraduate degree program. However, recognizing things like someone's activity intolerance, pain, altered fluid balance, risk for falls, and ability to cope impacts the steps you take in that person's care. Our role is to help patients respond to disease processes. Unless you are ok with blindly performing the tasks ordered of you, you must understand the rationale for your nursing interventions.
5. You have an issue with nursing being a female-dominated career and feel that it makes people doubt our intellect.
Since when does being female mean being ignorant? This is 2010. There are male nurses, male teachers, male flight attendants, female firefighters, female doctors, and female police officers. If a man is so insecure in his masculinity that the sole reason he doesn't want to enter a career field is because there's a related organization with (gasp!) pink and brown for colors, then I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say the career probably wasn't for him to begin with. The only men who will face barriers trying to enter the nursing profession today are those who create their own barriers. We shouldn't be trying to recruit people into our profession specifically based on their gender, race, religion, etc. anyhow. We should be focused on recruiting qualified individuals regardless of their background.
6. You think nurses are unintelligent and lack knowledge.
My background is in Labor & Delivery and Women's ER. If you put me into an ICU setting right now and told me to care for a vent patient, I wouldn't have the slightest idea of what to do. A med-surg nurse who was told that the doctor wasn't going to make it to the hospital in time and that he was assuming care of a patient who was about to precipitously deliver an infant with thick meconium and a likely nuchal cord, he'd probably be less than enthused. A geriatrics home health nurse would struggle if you assigned her to a pediatric floor and 6 patients.
We each have areas of expertise, but that doesn't mean we lack curiosity or knowledge. It just makes more sense for us to learn things that apply to our own practice so that we can improve patient care. Science is not my favorite subject, but ah, applying science to the human body and to my work? Now that I like. I'd challenge you to remember the details of every single disease process you hear about in your pathophysiology course 10 years from now without needing to look anything up. I'll be wrapping up my MSN degree in a year, but of course there will still be massive amounts of nursing information that I've never even heard of.
The most dangerous nurse is the nurse who thinks he or she knows it all. The nurses who realize there's room for growth, take advantage of continuing education, textbook and journal resources, and experienced peers as they grow in knowledge throughout their careers are the ones who will excel.
~~I sincerely hope that you just posted these thoughts to stir everyone up and that you don't actually feel this way about the nursing profession. If you do, you likely fall into the category of nurses that you have suggested of "far too many that should be doing something else."~~
I was so torn between a need to respond and a desire to have sarjasy's last post be the last word between us, particularly as it concluded with, to my recollection and without re-reading the whole thread, the first dictionary definition. Though ending with that consistently patronising conclusion would have been stylistically pleasing, sadly for dignity, my need to rebut won out.
I have no idea how extensive your lexicon is, but I believe you opened the gate to focusing on form as well as content. Much as I appreciate the pat on the head, if you go back over my posts you'll find that my 'overzealous' vocabulary wasn't brought in until you a) used 'parsing' incorrectly and b) pedantically but accurately pointed out the tautology of 'didactic lecturing.' That you perceive my use of language as an unnecessary attempt to demonstrate my intelligence is interesting.
However, my reason for posting is to address the biggest issue I have had with these exchanges - your total lack of engagement with valid points that contradicted your position, both those made by me and those made by other members. Your central thesis is that, based on one year of observation as a student, you believe the biggest concern of nurses is that other health care professionals lack respect for nurses, particularly regarding professionalism, and that nurses aren't respected because they are whiny, uninformed, uninterested in learning, project a feminised image of themselves, and wear cutesy clothes. However,
- many of your points and examples do not relate your stated concern: the negative perception of nurses by other health care professionals;
- you cite no external sources supporting your claims that this is a significant issue, nor that the aspects you identify contribute;
- you ignore cited external sources that contradict your position or that support the positions of others;
- many of your points and comments do support the idea, raised by a number of members, that you are uncomfortable or otherwise troubled by the female-dominated nature of nursing;
-this second point is one you have repeatedly failed to engage with or address; and
- the strong and largely negative response to your post was informed by the fact that your tone was inconsistent with your level of authority, knowledge and experience in this area.
I'd be delighted to read a post from you rebutting these aspects, but suspect that you'd rather leave the debate than engage in it.
metal_m0nk, BSN, RN
920 Posts
There it is. Plain and simple.
Sarj is trying to ignore that what his diatribe is truly about is pretty obvious. I get the distinct impression that a nursing school banner is much more than just a banner to Sarj. It's like, women are Martians, nursing is Mars, and he's wondering when Neil Armstrong is going to come along and plant a big old flag into the profession - a flag depicting a big bearded manly man, atop a muscle car, holding a mighty, lithic club in one hand and scarfing down a huge plate of meat and potatoes with the other.