Survey: Should nurses from other countries be recruited to aid in the nursing shortag - page 4
This month's survey Question: Should nurses from other countries be recruited to aid in the nursing shortage? Please take a minute to take answer our survey and please feel free to reply to... Read More
May 25, '04Occupation: Temp Nursing (and Dental Hygiene if it comes up) Joined: May '04; Posts: 9Quote from odatrnIf the hospitals used already well trained RN's AND LPN's and paid more, with better staffing instead of paying to recruit foreign nurses, (and also having to pay us agency/registry wages....) they would have no shortage.mfdteacher wrote:
We do not need foreign nurses, we need to address the problems imposed by the system currently in place. As long as the dollar is more important than the patient, we'll never go back to the hospital.
You said it best! I don't mind being mindful of the budget crisis in health care, but let the doctors shoulder some of the responsibility in the situation. As for foreign nurses? We are a town of 36,000 and have a community college close by that has ADN and an LPN programs. It is the only thing that keeps our shortage at bay.
However, I LIKE the flexibility of my job and the pay is much better than I would get working solely as an LPN for one employer, (almost what I can earn as an RDH) and I still have the flexibility to do RDH for even more $$ without the hassle of working with one DDS. I can do either/both professions in one month. And choose where/when I work.
The DDS's also complain about Hygienist shortage, but THERE the problem is the same... some DDS's respect and treat us as professionals... many don't. Those who don't eventually have a reputation and cannot find anyone. OR they live so far away that it is difficult to get someone to want to drive an hour to work daily. There is the same problem in both places...but there is really no shortage of nurses OR Hygienists... just many who have chosen NOT to continue to work as either.
May 27, '04Occupation: Telephone Triage Nurse Specialty: 13 year(s) of experience in QI, Medical, Adult Psych, Telehealth ; Joined: May '04; Posts: 15; Likes: 1AMEN! Nurses would come out of the woodwork if they knew that they could work in a setting that did not include the degree of stress and unrealistic expectations that has become the norm.
[QUOTE=TiffyRN]Once more we don't have a nursing shortage in the US, we have a shortage of WORKING nurses.
May 28, '04Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '03; Posts: 4,389; Likes: 153Quote from RigbyYou may be right, but it's complicated, especially when you read the U.S. Health Department report on this issue:Once more, we don't have a nursing shortage in the US, we have a shortage of WORKING nurses.
As of 2000, there were about 500,000 licensed nurses not working in the field, and that's up by about 50,000 since 1996. However, the average age of nurses has also jumped from 25 to 45 in the last 20 years. Therefore, it's not surprizing that 70 percent or about 340,000 of those licensed non-working nurses are also over age 50.
Here's the rub: During the same time period between 1996-2000, the number of RNs dropping out of the license pool due to death, retirement, etc. increased substantially by 650 percent, from roughly 25,000 to nearly 175,000. This was unusual, since the number of "dropouts," so to speak, in previous surveys was relatively stable at about 25,000.
This indicates that a large portion of the aging RN workforce is approaching retirement age and, in fact, another 500,000 RNs are expected to retire in the next 20 years.
So ... what you may have here, is a substantial portion of those 500,000 non-working RNs approaching retirement, since a lot of them are older. However, I agree that it still leaves a lot of room for potentially large numbers of nurses who may have quit their jobs due to poor working conditions, etc.
But here's some other factors to consider:
If the pool of licensed RNs choosing NOT to work in the profession increases to 650,000 in the next 20 years (assuming that the number of licensed non-working RNs continues to increase at a rate of 7,500 per year) ...
And, even if working conditions improved everywhere and all of those nurses won't be on the verge of retiring and are able to return to work ...
You'd still have a shortage of 150,000 RNs ... since there are 800,000 projected vacancies in the next 20 years. That could leave plenty of room for foreign nurses ...
Of course, if nursing school enrollments dramatically increase, this could change all of these projections (among other things) but, this is where things stand now with current nursing school enrollment figures and trends, at least according to the health department.
Last edit by Sheri257 on May 30, '04
May 28, '04Specialty: 4 year(s) of experience in Critical Care, ER ; Joined: Jul '03; Posts: 1,578; Likes: 207Quote from apogeeListen foreign nurses still contribute to the US economy unlike outsourcing and labor export. American nurses are oppressed because there are powerful forces that are willfully exerting this oppression AND the resources available to nurses currently are unable to counterbalance such forces.Me first! The reason nursing wages are held down is because of imported nursing. I love lumpia, adobo, pancit, curry-curry with abodong, Lichon, and all the rest, but, I would also like to see my wages at least equal to the high school graduate that is working right next to me doing nothing but griping about everything. If the wages were there, I do not believe there would be a "Nursing Shortage" all nurses should get their collective act together hold tight and sock it to the agencies that must have us there by law......We are professionals, where's the money?
I have NO problem with international recruitment, why shouldn't people from countries where the U.S. consistently supports sweatshops and substandard living conditions by corporate exploitation not have the opportunity to flourish ?
May 28, '04Joined: May '04; Posts: 1; Likes: 1Hello to my fellow nursing colleagues. I am one of those so called foreign nurses that you speak of. If you please, I would like like to add my foreign 2cents to this discussion. I work in your beautiful and usually friendly country because my own beautiful and usually friendly country was not hiring at the time I graduated. I live in a border city so like thousands of other Canadian nurses not to mention engineers, pharmacists, RRT's, skilled trades the list goes on and on I descided to commute to your country on a regular basis in order to do the job I trained for. I have a three year nursing diploma and wrote and passed CGFNS which is a nursing exam reserved for those of us "foreign" nurses who descided to work in the US.By the way it has a 85-90%failure rate for first time writers and costs $265. Then I payed to have all my paperwork transfered over to the state board and was deemed worthy of writing the NCLEX exam, which by the way was a cinch compared to the RN licencing exam I had to write in my foreign country Canada. Now I take more $$$ and my paperwork, go to INS where they do an extensive background check to make sure that I'm AOK to enter the US. All the time and money invested thus far is courtesy of me, the foreign nurse. Now with licence, visa, SSN brand new, bright smile and a winning attitude I am ready to embark on my first job in the USA. The people are knowledgeable, accomodating and lo and behold speak the same language as me! So why do you need people like me working in your hospitals? Let me enlighten you; Canada is a bilingual country, we speak English and French, I also know Italian and Spanish which has helped me communicate with various American patients who do not speak any English. I come from a country that prides itself and having one of the best educational and health care systems in the world. Thus enabling me to do my job with knowledge and taking almost no time off for sick days. I have helped save countless American lives have wiped even more American butts have trained many American nurses, residents, techs ets. I have laughed till I cryed and cryed till I had no more tears. I consider all of you Americans to be my brothers and sisters and I am grateful to you for giving me the oppertunity to care for and work with some of the most wonderfull people that I will ever meet. By the way I pay taxes in your country, play there work there and thus contribute to the economy there but I use up very few of your valuable services as I live in my own highly developed county and therefore don't require much. I get payed the same wage as my US co-workers and do my job well or I wouldn't still be here. I choose to work in the US not because of the money but because of the friendships and teamwork I have found. Your comments (though it seems few of you have worked with Canadian RN's) make me feel as if my contribution to your health care system is not appreciated, how sad = ( I appologize for the long reply but it is truly from the heart. I hope that when you meet a nurse that is not from your own country that you at least allow him/her to make a contribution to the workplace because beleive it or no there is a nursing shortage in US hospitals and will be for some years to come. In closing I would like to say not only "God bless America" but "God bless everybody" as the world is so richly blessed with a great diversity of humanity which extends far beyond the US border.
May 28, '04Occupation: staff development Joined: Mar '04; Posts: 538; Likes: 50Well said hockeychick
OFF TOPIC-- watching the playoffs? GO FLAMES!!! Last night was merely a fluke. Besides, letting Tampa BAy win one will give them something toboost their self esteems when the Flames take the cup home !!
May 28, '04Joined: May '04; Posts: 63; Likes: 7Just a note ..I feel if a Nurse is from a country
(for example Canada)
that has similar nursing standards then the USA ,give them an opportunity to pass the NCLEX test ..then recrute them. There is enough jobs out there ..
We Nurses have to respect each other ..
as long as we work together ...
As long as we strives for "exellence" in PATIENT CARE ....continue to educate ourselves and stay informed ..
it really does not matter what country we were recruted from ..
we all have earned the right to care for patients in the USA....especially since America was built by immigrants ....
DIVERSITY THATS WHAT MAKES AMERICA SO GREAT ...
GOD BLESSES AMERICA BECAUSE IT IS DIVERSE ....and we as NURSES should
be the first in line to respect each other ...
as we work to promote "HEALTHCARE" ...anywhere in the world....
we NEED GOOD NURSES .......Last edit by ginger1023 on May 28, '04
May 29, '04Occupation: RN/LOA Joined: May '04; Posts: 8Foreign nurses are a great help however I do have a very great problem with the one's hired that can barely communicate in ENGLISH...and often they speak broken at best English. Even Doctors/Residents who come here to AMERICA to train speak very broken ENGLISH. Why I have to ask are they not required to learn ENGLISH first?
The patients may or may not get the right care...if these nurses and doctors cannot communicate with the rest of the staff. I speak from vast experience with "just off the boat/plane" RN's and MD's. We need help but competent help...knowledge is no good if you cannot communicate with the staff and patients. Money could help Nurses come back to the hospitals but I believe there is more to it...
AND A BIG THANK YOU TO THOSE "FOREIGN" NURSES WHO DO THEIR JOBS WELL WITH PRIDE AND GOOD ENGLISH [AMONG THE MANY OTHER LANGUAGES YOU MAY ALSO BRING WITH YOU ]Last edit by ED/NICU on May 29, '04
May 30, '04Occupation: Temp Nursing (and Dental Hygiene if it comes up) Joined: May '04; Posts: 9[QUOTE=hockeychick]Hello to my fellow nursing colleagues. I am one of those so called foreign nurses that you speak of. If you please, I would like like to add my foreign 2cents to this discussion. -------------------
Hi! I think when I answered the question, it was should they RECRUIT, which in my mind means offer large bonuses to bring nurses INTO the country. I have no problem with anyone coming here to work, if they pass the tests and clear for the visa, etc. I do, however, have a problem with paying people large amounts of money to come here when there are nurses who would be thrilled to return to work or continue to work if some of that money were spent here, on our own US nurses.
Welcome, and I have no problem working with the nurses we have had from the Phillipines, Canada, etc. As for all of the testing in order to get here... as a hygienist, I have to jump through hoops to work outside of the Central States that my license is good for, and in many have to RETAKE the National And the Practical Exam in order to be able to work in say... the West Coast, the East Coast, etc. And this is in my own country!
May 30, '04Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '03; Posts: 4,389; Likes: 153Quote from ED/NICUI could be wrong, but I believe there are new English proficiency requirements to potentially remedy that problem?Foreign nurses are a great help however I do have a very great problem with the one's hired that can barely communicate in ENGLISH...and often they speak broken at best English. Even Doctors/Residents who come here to AMERICA to train speak very broken ENGLISH. Why I have to ask are they not required to learn ENGLISH first?
(P.S. Where's suzanne4? She would know. )
May 30, '04Occupation: long term care Joined: Feb '04; Posts: 87; Likes: 1The amount of money that this country's businesses spend recruiting and maintaining foreign nurses is incredible. They send for them, place them in housing, and give them contracts for employment. Why not just educate your own citizens free, include room and board at the colleges, and give an additional bonus to work at the local hospitals. What is the difference? :hatparty:
The main difference I see, once the foreign nurses are in the U.S. they work 80 hours a week for 10 years or more deprieving other nurses of employment. That is what I have seen for many years now, greed, pure greed. We could never go to another country and accomplish what many do once they enter the gates of America. Just the facts mam, just the facts.:uhoh21:Last edit by marymary on May 30, '04
May 30, '04Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '03; Posts: 4,389; Likes: 153Quote from marymarySounds like a good idea. But I could see how they might lose a lot of money that way. The failure rate, especially in pre-reqs and, also, nursing school is pretty high. I'm guessing that they'd probably only want to spend money on people who are already nurses (or close to becoming RNs) since there might be a lower risk factor there.The amount of money that this country's businesses spend recruiting and maintaining foreign nurses is incredible. They send for them, place them in housing, and give them contracts for employment. Why not just educate your own citizens free, include room and board at the colleges, and give an additional bonus to work at the local hospitals. What is the difference? :hatparty:
Last edit by Sheri257 on May 30, '04
May 30, '04Joined: May '02; Posts: 4,581; Likes: 4,883Quote from LPN/RDHNanaWantsToGoAlthough we do recruit from overseas, Australia doesn't offer overseas nurses magnificent packages, and recruits have to already have some post-grad experience. In Victorian public hospitals we have at least adequate staffing, and adequate (though not superlative) renumeration. Since instituting the ratios, 3000 nurses have returned, so our acute shortage has eased.If the hospitals used already well trained RN's AND LPN's and paid more, with better staffing instead of paying to recruit foreign nurses, (and also having to pay us agency/registry wages....) they would have no shortage.
Despite this, senior nurse advisers are still concerned - nurses are an aging population, and this is going to be a chronic problem for some time.
I think the idea that significant, systemic issues like these are in any way contributed to or caused by overseas nurse recruitment is mistaken. Low wages in nursing are not because of market-driven competition - acute and dire nursing shortages have never seen a corresponding surge in salaries. By 'low wages' I mean that income is not commensurate with the risk, skill, education, anti-social hours and earning potential that is inherent in nursing. Junior doctors, for example, have at least similar conditions, but an earning potential which is partially compensatory. By 'surge in salaries' I mean that there has never been a time where the response to a nursing shortage was to double salaries, for example.
Nursing salaries comprise the single biggest category of a hospital budget. Rather than recognising that this is because there are more of us than of any other group of employee, and rather than acknowledge the innumerate research findings that improved patient outcomes are strongly associated with having more, experienced, and skilled nurses, administrators see the answer in short-term fiscal responses. Instead of addressing the issues that make nursing unattractive, they 'replace' shortfalls with under-trained para-nursing staff.
Until the value of nursing is recognised in a way more concrete than lip service, nothing will change. This is a global problem, and needs a universal solution.