Socialized Medicine the myths and the facts

Having worked in a country which has socialized medicine I can certainly see the pit falls and the benefits. What I don't understand is the fear behind having socialized medicine In my opinion socialized medicine has more positive benefits than negative benefits. Nurses Announcements Archive Article

You are reading page 11 of Socialized Medicine the myths and the facts

Shaka

23 Posts

Specializes in Staff Nurse-OB primary.

If all are following what is going on right now the latest is the injection of a "huge savings" in health care.......900 some billion will be taken from Medicare and Medicaid to pay for insuring all. The discussions and mental mastication of the health care in this country is a moot point. "We" the people have said we want to be taken care of and we will be.....the price is our freedom and choice, our creativeness and ingenuity, our sovereignty as individuals in this world. If you don't know what I am referring to then you won't miss something you aren't aware of....until it's gone. And then what? Be prepared for pay cuts, staffing decreases, limited treatment on the elderly....and more sacrifices in quality to satisfy the quantity...Expect to see the same ineptness that has happened with the managing of Medicare and Medicaid currently. Obama refused to address the issue of one of the major causes of increased health care which was presented by the AMA at the recent conference Obama attended...more tests and treatment due to the exorbitant cost of . He stated he would not look at capping on malpractice suits sought by the ambulance chaser lawyers who aren't offering to lower their fees! Why not? Washington is one big lawyer. He is not listening to what is the reality of what has happened to health care that has brought it to the place of chaos that is the only description of what is happening. We are supposed to commit our future generations to the 9th, a debt for our short sighted decisions in the now. Did you know that when a baby is born...at it's first breath it is in debt to the tune of $45,000 dollars and going up each day. Why do we all keep going back to the same old rules that are antiquated and only serve to divide us. Why do we believe, when it has been shown to us otherwise, that the government is going to "fix" the health care system in this country? There is no more truth or reason in this world I believe, just out of control fixers. Why is it that teaching each of us to take responsibility for our own health and well being not considered in the changes that are being proposed and has been so vehemently opposed by the current system? Why is it that people look to the "government" for the solution to everything? We are a bankrupt nation in case no one knows that. We have been for years. We continue to try and put everything in the monetary value of a dollar, yen, pound, euro.....when it is impossible to consider without raising huge ethical issues and the continued denial that maybe we are not as bright as we think we are. Are we being given "all" of the information that is available about health, healing, wholeness....living life other than as a victim of something in this world? I know the answer to this is "no". We have been indoctrinated into believing we are at the fate suffering, at the hands and minds of each other. What I am trying to say here is that there are other solutions to the problem that are not being acknowledged. There are other attitudes and principles to live by that are inclusive, not exclusive.Why do we want to keep putting our ideas, energy and heart into something that is in a hole that is half full of dirt? Do we truly have to be awakened through more pain and suffering? I am seeing that the answer to these and many more questions is "yes". My prayers are for us all.

dlatimer

126 Posts

Specializes in ICU, MS, Radiology, Long term care.

This is exactly the question. Who lives and who dies. If you can afford it, you can live.

What if?... I had a grave disease and could live another 1-5 years if I spent $100,000 for advanced treatment or I could be at peace with my death and save the money for my kids.

dlatimer

126 Posts

Specializes in ICU, MS, Radiology, Long term care.

Health care corporations for profit should be phased out. Consider what could be done with the profit now realized. More research could be done for alternative energy, job creation, electric transportation alternatives. There is something wrong with making profit from peoples illness. Everyone who gets a dividend or increase in stock from health care corporations should examine their conscious.

Saúde

90 Posts

It's so popular these days to analogously paint profitable entities as Satan. :smackingf

The logic behind non-for-profit hospitals is to provide charity. In studies, for-profit hospitals provide just as much charity work as non-for-profit hospitals. When you factor in the tax revenue generated/not generated, for-profit hospitals do much more for communities than non-for-profit hospitals. Many restaurants, grocery stores, etc... intentionally locate near hospitals. Are they evil also? NO.

In a Zogby poll for the Council for Affordable Health Insurance it found an overwhelming majority of Americans support the Health Care Choice Act, which would allow interstate commerce of health insurance policies. 72% support, 15% oppose, 13% were not sure. Even larger majorities of Latinos (86%) and African-Americans (85%) support the bill.

IMO - Americans don't necessarily want socialized health care. They just want affordable health care. If the entire country had access to interstate shopping for health insurance policies, in which they could customize to fit the particular needs of their own family without government regulations, costs would come down, and more people would be able to afford health insurance. And all without enormous tax increases and a big government takeover of our health care system. The increase of insured individuals would have a direct impact on the amount of charity work hospitals could provide.

From a recent article I read concerning Obama's health care plan, "Democrats on Capitol Hill and in the administration are expressing frank worries about stronger-than-expected opposition from moderate Democrats and worse-than-expected estimates for how much the plan would cost." It's apparent that moderate Democrats are starting to get a little worried about the upcoming elections. Could it be that they are starting to listen to their constituents and deciding it's not profitable for their long term viability to push government funded health care? Apparently these so-called majorities, that many on this website speak of, who want a government funded health care system do not vote. Otherwise I can guarantee you that these moderate Democrats would not be running from Obama and his proposed reforms. Take care.

Saúde

90 Posts

HMO's have considerable government regulation and oversight. Here's a real life example.

I am a 39 year old mother, that is disabled and in a wheelchair for life. My doctor has told me that I need a medically necessary surgery, and that I will die an early death without it. The catch is, my HMO will not pay for this surgery. I have been through three appeals already, and I went through a State Board of Appeals last Monday. I lost again. The reason I lost is: the state claims they cannot make the HMO pay for my surgery because there is no law saying that the insurance must pay for a medically necessary surgery.

The logic behind HMO's is the control of health care costs. There is an obvious historical correlation between government involvement in trying to control health care costs, which started in the 1970's, and the increases we see in health care costs today. The high costs of health care we see today is not a result of a free market, but a result of a free market morphing into a controlled market. Take care.

dlatimer

126 Posts

Specializes in ICU, MS, Radiology, Long term care.

This is from Kaiser Health Tracking Poll dated 6/2009

Since last fall, roughly six in ten Americans say that the "serious economic problems facing the country" make it "more important than ever to take on health care reform now." These attitudes differ substantially by partisan affiliation. Most Democrats (74 percent) and political independents (59 percent) say reform is more important than ever, while the majority of Republicans (56 percent) say we cannot afford to take on health care reform right now.

Most Americans also say they would find an independent organization or exchange to be helpful if they had to get health insurance on their own. The exchange concept was described in two ways to two different half samples. When described as providing "a range of health insurance plans for you to choose from while also guaranteeing that participating plans would not deny coverage to those with pre-existing conditions or charge higher premiums to those who are in poorer health," 70 percent said it would be at least somewhat helpful (including 31 percent "very helpful"). When it was described more simply as providing "a range of health insurance plans approved by the government," the same seven in ten said it would be helpful, including 27 percent who thought it would be "very helpful".

the rest of the poll is at http://www.kff.org/kaiserpolls/7925.cfm

lamazeteacher

2,170 Posts

Specializes in OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI.
I think they mean that as a citizen of a country, your government should be able to provide health care for you , whether you have money to pay or not. It should be a privilege , a right or a benefit?

It is a human right! :up:

Saúde

90 Posts

What do folks mean when they refer to a "moral obligation" in terms of our federal government providing universal health care coverage?

I must be missing something here because I've never read in our Constitution where it gives our federal government authority over the states on this subject.

IMO - The basis of this argument is equivalent to a person saying that I have a moral right to walk over to my neighbor and hold a gun to their heads and unlawfully demand that they give me their money to help me pay for my family's medical expenses? That doesn't sound too high-minded or virtuous to me.

I'd encourage more of the individuals within the so called "majorities" on this website who favor government funded universal health care to practice what you preach and start helping folks out at a community level with your own money. If the so called "majorities" within our communities truly lived up to the moral obligations they try to impose illegitimately onto their neighbors through our federal government, then many if not all of the disparities we see in our health care system would cease to exist. Until then save your breath on the "moral obligation" philosophies. Take care.

talaxandra

3,037 Posts

Specializes in Medical.

To the best of my knowledge there aren't any moral rights addressed in the US constitution. That doesn't mean moral rights don't exist.

Contributing financially to needy causes as an individual, while admirable, is not in itself enough to reverse the kind of health disparity you have in America. The assumption that this is something pro-UHC members preach but do not practice has no foundation and is in any case a wholly separate matter.

Clearly most of us are too committed to our positions to move. On the one hand are those like Saúde, who believe we live in a meritocracy where anyone can be successful if they try hard enough and that individuals ought to stand or fall on their own. On the other hand are those like me, who believe many factors contribute to success and that the first duty of a civilised society is to provide for those who are unable to help themselves, either temporarily or permanently. I imagine that those with a diametrically opposed opinion to mine have reflected on their position as much as I have on mine, considered the alternatives and rejected them, and recognise that there's unilkely to be any kind of common ground achieved. That doesn't mean we can't try to diabuse one another of errors in the information they use to arrive at that position, which is why I've posted on my experiences working in a country with UHC.

dlatimer

126 Posts

Specializes in ICU, MS, Radiology, Long term care.

Instead your neighbor walking over with a gun - how about a healthcare industry who increases your premiums until you are spending 1/5 of your paycheck on those premiums and the co-deductible payments so you can be healthy enough to work and become a more productive member of society? That is where we are now. I don't know about moral responsibility. Is it OK if someone makes lots of $$$$ because you were ill and had to spend all your savings on treatment? Now, health care is controlled by the market. Maybe the market isn't doing an equitable job. The market was controlling the banking sector (still is) and do you remember the deal with the banks a few months ago?

MaritesaRN

427 Posts

Specializes in psychiatric, UR analyst, fraud, DME,MedB.
having worked in a country which has socialised medicine i can certainly see the pit falls and the benefits. what i dont understand is the fear behind having socialised medicine in my opinion socialised medicine has more positive benefits than negative benefits.

the first and the most obvious concern is the cost to the patient and their family, we all know how devestating an illness can be for pts and their family many times i have witnessed the despair when a diagnoses meant further treatment which insurances question and in some cases wont cover. i have seen pts needing costly drugs to keep them alive and being unable to afford them, causing repeated admissions to repair the damage so called none compliance has caused. the first question in none compliance is were the pts actually refusing to take their medication or was it simply they could not afford to buy their medication because they dont have enough money and other bills need to be paid first? if the real reason is the cost then surely it would be more simple of we provided these medications at a more effective price or that all medications cost $5 no matter what they had? outrageous i hear you shout but the cost of the repeated admission is far more costly than by helping prevent a repeat admission, by providing medicine they can afford.

how about blood tests could these not be done in the doctors office before the pt leaves for home and forgets to go and have a blood draw, or simply cannot get to the lab to have them drawn. i have personnally waited in doctors office hours (and paid for the priviledge) then been sent to the lab, miles away to sit and wait for blood work to be done. why could the doctors not employ somebody to be at the office to draw blood on pts?

we should be looking at improving preventative medicine rather than patch it up and see.

many times i have seen pts discharged with a new diagnoses of diabetes, no follow up at home can be organised because in my city nothing exists to assist these people. there should be a diabetic home nurse who monitors these pts in their own home-rationale, this would again help prevent admissions for diabetic complications, and none compliance.

so you wonder what has this got to do with socialised medicine. well, in the uk if you have certain illnesses for example

  • children
  • over 60 for women and over 65 for men
  • diabetes
  • asthma
  • thyroid problems, etc...

then you get all your medicines for free.

there are in place specialised rn's who focus is on preventative care in the community. there are telephone help lines which anybody can utilise for free.

maternity care is free a midwife will be assigned to you for the duration of your pregnancy and upto 6 weeks later. the cost of the birth-nothing no matter how you deliver.

i have been asked what kind of care do you recieve in a socilaised medicine country and i ask them, i am a product of socialised medicine you tell me how my care differs from nurses who have paid outrageous amounts of money to train as a nurse?

of course even in the uk you can have private care if you chose to pay, this is an advantage if you need hip replacements, knee replacements, eye surgeries-other wise you may have to wait. there are initiatives in place to reduce waiting times for surgeries in the nhs and i hear that dr's can now book surgeries from their office at hospitals all over the uk which helps reduce waiting times, plus hospitals get fined if they dont meet their quota.

i agree mri's and ct's are not as freely available, but again iinitiatives are in place to improve the waiting times.

emergency care no different all patients will recieve emergency care.

poor conditions yes there are poor hospitals and there are excellent hospitals, no different to phoenix az.

questions??

:dhi want to add to your thoughts.

there is a real good article in aarp about 8 myths of health care reform;

http://www.aarpmagazine.org/health/8_myths_about_health_care_reform.html?cmp=nlc-wbltr-ctrl-61909-f4r

Saúde

90 Posts

I've never read in our Constitution where it gives our federal government authority over the states on this subject or many, many, many, other subjects.