Shabbos/Religious Observances - page 3
As I begin the applications process for nursing schools, I have one huuuuge concern - my religious obligations. I am not permitted to work/attend school, etc. from sunset Friday nights until an hour... Read More
Dec 2, '07Occupation: Housewife Joined: Nov '07; Posts: 36; Likes: 28Quote from nataniaNo worries. Frum or otherwise, we all have these little issues to deal with. Am Yisroel Lev Echod. Thanks for your understanding!Blee - I intend to bring this up with the dean of nursing when I am closer to completing the program, not so much for myself, but on behalf of younger and more timid students who may not feel empowered to speak up. Because I am in no danger of actually flunking out of my program, I thought I'd put it off till a more convenient time. Right now, I am swamped with finals.
texasmommy: I don't wish to misrepresent myself; although I am religious in my own way, I am not frum. However, I fully comprehend your problem.
Dec 2, '07Occupation: RN Specialty: DOU ; Joined: May '07; Posts: 1,100; Likes: 1,040Quote from TazziRNTexasmommy isn't an employee, and this isn't a disaster. She doesn't have enough training to save a life (yet). She would only be a student. Perhaps she should concentrate on one hurdle at a time.I did NOT mean to imply that I was offended or anything like that!!! What I was trying to point out is that being sick crosses the boundaries of ALL religions and cultures. There is no discrimination by germies or accidents. I realize that not everyone in Israel is observanto or even Jewish, but I used that country as an example because the majority there ARE Jewish and many are orthodox. If an orthodox Jew should fall very ill or have a serious accident on the Sabbath, would he wait until the next day to get help? I don't think so. Or if another disaster happens and the hospital's disaster tree were activated, would you be in trouble for responding? Again, I don't think so. While staffing may be minimized, if there are not enough non-Jewish employees to staff a hospital, I doubt anyone would have a problem with you working. I don't think you'll find it a problem, because Christians and the non-observant would be more than happy to cover for you if you cover for them, but I think your powers that be would understand and give you permission to work.
Dec 2, '07From: US ; Joined: Jan '06; Posts: 13,193; Likes: 17,911Tazzi, the colloquial expression is, "We live by the commandments, not die by them."
That said, breaking the law may not be permitted by one's own decision, and the reason must be serious. Going to a class, on a day when writing and reading, travelling, kindling any kind of fire, ripping paper, even carrying keys are prohibited, would not constitute a valid reason for the Jewish equivalent of a "special dispensation."
Dec 2, '07Joined: Apr '06; Posts: 11,159; Likes: 11,316I didn't have a single weekend hour for clinicals until my very last week of clinical. (If you would end up working one Sabbath day I think God would forgive you for breaking the rules.) Although, I do think that you will find that your school will work" with you to avoid the need for a clinical day on the Sabbath. Best of luck!
Dec 2, '07Joined: Apr '06; Posts: 11,159; Likes: 11,316Quote from texasmommyBirdgardner, please feel free to PM me at any time to ask any questions you might have about caring for Orthodox pts. I'd be more than happy to share our customs and things that would be useful to a caregiver!
I think posting care guidelines would be on topic....Last edit by HM2VikingRN on Dec 2, '07
Dec 2, '07Joined: Apr '00; Posts: 24,611; Likes: 35,453
Dec 2, '07Occupation: Nurse Specialty: Gyn Onc,OB,L&D, HH/Hospice/Pallliative ; Joined: Oct '07; Posts: 843; Likes: 669Docs and nurses observant as well work on shabbos --preservation of life trumps religious observation. The good thing is many more christians work so its really easy to get coverage for the high holy days,and they love to have someone to work xmas for them! I've never worked a jewish holiday in 20 yrs !
Dec 2, '07Occupation: Nurse Specialty: Gyn Onc,OB,L&D, HH/Hospice/Pallliative ; Joined: Oct '07; Posts: 843; Likes: 669
Dec 2, '07Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '99; Posts: 2,950; Likes: 620Quote from texasmommyPlease, understand I do not ask this in disrespect. Quite the opposite.I'm not sure what goes on in Israeli hospitals, but as another poster said, the majority of Israeli Jews are not strictly observant. Also, there are many Christians and people of other religions living in the country. My point in making this topic wasn't to start any kind of debate or get people "fired up." I really hope I haven't made a mess of things...
Who do you propose take care of the ill on Holy days? Some one has to. Why would you expect a Gentile to do it in your place?
If a strict observer of your tradition were ill on a Holy day do they expect to not be cared for? Let's just say for argument sake there were no Gentiles or non orthodox Jew around to care for the sick who would you have do this on a Holy day?
Have you discussed your choice of professions and this question with a Rabbi whom you respect? I think this is important enough to make an appointment to do so.
Yes, many employers and co workers will make an allowance. You may not find this true every where and accomodations are not always made without resentment.
It is not just to have to work on a favored day off simply because someone else has a religious conviction that does not permit them to work. It is kind of like forcing your religion on someone else. Because they must give up a Friday or Saturday off because you have a particular religious conviction that they do not share.
Seventh Day Adventist who also refrain from labor from Sunset Friday to sunset Saterday acknowledge there is certain "necessary" work that must be done no matter what the day. One of those things is caring for the sick.
Please, make an appointment to discuss this with your Rabbi before you take this step.
Dec 2, '07Joined: Apr '00; Posts: 24,611; Likes: 35,453Quote from GrumpyRN63Ummm, this is a Christian link
they have a Christian Sabbath????
i am very sorry.
how do i find a Jewish one?
Dec 2, '07Joined: Apr '00; Posts: 24,611; Likes: 35,453ok.
very interesting link.
perhaps a bit more ambiguous, but still says:
"As with almost all of the commandments, all of these Shabbat restrictions can be violated if necessary to save a life."
Dec 2, '07Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '99; Posts: 2,950; Likes: 620Just a little added aside to my previous post. I Attend Church every Sunday that I can. I resent a policy at my hospital that says, if you declare at the time you are hired that your religion does not permit you to work on Sunday you never have to work on Sunday. Excuse me! I would like Sunday off to attend Church as well. The difference is my religion does not provide me the convenient command forbidding me to work.
So I work over half of the Sundays in a year because of someone else's religion. I have to wonder about the personal ethics of a person that goes into a profession understanding the work is 24/7/365 when such work goes against anything they are willing to do.
I submit this with respect. At the same time need to express my frustration on the matter.
Dec 2, '07Occupation: Freelancing Specialty: 15 year(s) of experience in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele ; Joined: Jun '07; Posts: 5,292; Likes: 7,635Quote from nataniaWow, that's terrible! I grew up in a secular Jewish home and went to a public school that had a large Jewish population We used to get Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kipper off, the whole school district (Beverly Hills) But, my family wasn't observant, other than in a very nominal way. I'm a Christian now.I was written up for missing clinicals on Rosh Hashanah this year. It was the only day I have missed for school during my entire program.
Anyway, our class is split up into different clinical rotation days: some of us are on Tuesdays, some on Wednesdays, and some on Saturdays. I don't know how your program works, but it shouldn't be too hard to arrange to have Shabbat off.