RN Clinical Teacher- no teaching experience? - page 4
Just curious what you think of this. I saw a job posting at work yesterday for a position as a clinical instructor for ADN program in my area. All they want is a willing RN/BSN with recent acute care... Read More
Aug 18, '02Occupation: registered nurse Joined: Nov '01; Posts: 1,083; Likes: 14having a passion for a specialty area and teaching are two different animals all together. Just because you love it does not mean you have the knowledge for that specialty, that knowledge is gained by experience in that field. all the theory in the world will not prepare you for those areas.while i agree that being prepared to teach is a requirement, i do not believe A MSN or PHD will make you a better teach, this I know from personal experience. My students are as well prepared and i would say better prepared than those of instructors with such degrees.
to be a good instructor you most have knowledge of subject,not just teaching theories. you must love to teach. you must have the ability gain students trust,to convey your message and knowledge. encourage interaction and sharing of knowledge. (that is one reason why intimidation never works.) teachers need to remember the preceeding requirements.
to many nurse have went to teach for the wrong reasons,IE. tired of working the floor, could not take working as a nurse any longer and many more. I have heard these excuses many times from other instructors and you know what all the degrees in the world will not make them a good instructor because it is not what they really want to do
Aug 18, '02Occupation: Patient Education Specialty: 7 year(s) of experience in LDRP; Education ; Joined: Mar '01; Posts: 7,470; Likes: 56Originally posted by Susy K
Having an MSN doesn't qualify one to teach either. Ask Tim GNP (if he's still around) there are alot of concepts that should be taught to prospective educators that aren't.
I never said that having more degrees = better teaching ability.
I simply answered the original thread of why an ad was placed for a nursing educator position that didn't seem to require any other type of qualification, other than being a nurse. And all I said was that was a reflection of the nursing shortage. The shortage effects ALL areas of nursing, not just the floors.
For some reason I feel we have gotten off track here.
I love to teach as well, and have taught without any formal training, and learning things now while in my program only makes me able to reflect back on those teaching moments and realize what I could have or should have used in those interactions. I was able to look back and realize that I had objectives written all wrong, misread my students, and didn't take the time to realize how each person learns, and in fact, HOW people learn. Now maybe I am unique in that, and perhaps everyone else was aware of teaching strategies that have been proven through research, or takes into account educational psychology principles during instructional design, but I wasn't. Maybe all the reason I should be in school.
Aug 18, '02Occupation: registered nurse Joined: Nov '01; Posts: 1,083; Likes: 14Originally posted by kona2
Just curious what you think of this. I saw a job posting at work yesterday for a position as a clinical instructor for ADN program in my area. All they want is a willing RN/BSN with recent acute care experience. They don't care if you have ever taught or have any teaching experience. I was a little surprised by that. Nope, I am not applying to the job. I was just a little disappointed I guess. I know we nurses do precepting & teaching all the time. But I couldn't help think that they are being unfair to the student RNs by not even requiring a little formalized teaching experience from the clinical instructors. By the way, this ADN program has an excellent rep. What do you all think?
that is one reason i replied in the way that i did. never saw a thing wrong with a person with experience teaching clinical never will, just as long as the can teach
Aug 19, '02Occupation: Nurse Consultant Specialty: 24 year(s) of experience in Obstetrics, M/S, Psych ; Joined: Jun '02; Posts: 3,105; Likes: 49Another very helpful factor in being a good teacher is life experience. I don't believe a 20 something nurse, advanced degrees or not, would be as qualified, in general, as someone who has been around the block a few times. As far as the MSN requirement and experience...well it probably took quite a few years just to achieve all those things, so the life experience is automatically included.
In answer to to kona2's original question:
Don't rely on the teachers degree to be a guarantee that the experience you get from this teacher will be what you expect. This is especially true in the clinical area. I think the BSN minimum with recent clinical experience is all that is required as the BSN nurse should have the theory to back up her rational when teaching in the clinical setting.
Aug 19, '02Joined: Jan '02; Posts: 1,614; Likes: 2Reading this particular thread has blown a great gust of wind into my sails.
Aug 19, '02Occupation: RN, ICU/CCU Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 1,062; Likes: 7This thread really interested me as I am about to start my core courses on the 26th. We don't go to the hospital for the first 6 weeks until after we are checked off on things they teach us.
Luckily, I have met my clinical instructor (she also was teaching the Basic Life Support class required over the summer) and she impressed me as a good teacher. I remember at one point she asked the other instructor "I know we are supposed to teach this technique, but I have never used it, nor have I seen it used. Have you?" The other instructor said she had seen it once years ago, but that better techniques have been used. They then proceeded to teach the technique, but then went over a better technique they both said they actually have used.
To me, that is a good sign that the instructors are up to date. Neither one were over 50... does this sound like good instruction to you all or am I naive?
Aug 19, '02Joined: May '00; Posts: 2,065; Likes: 8If you don't like teaching, or want to teach, you'll hardly apply for an educator job. Just my kind of logic.
The things you learn during your pedagogic studies are, as in all studies, sometimes very useful and other times full of s...
But........ you learn your ditactics, how to teach bigger groups, you are evaluated on your speach, on your mimics on your body language etc. etc.
You learn things other "lay-people" don't have profound knowledge of.
Isn't it the same with nursing? Everybody "knows" how to nurse a sick child or sick elderly, but we the professianals know better, don't we?
ok, enough, take care, Renee
Aug 20, '02Specialty: 22 year(s) of experience in surgical, neuro, education ; Joined: Jul '01; Posts: 395; Likes: 56As I have continued to teach, I work on improving my communication skills etc. This is not a requirement from employer, but a wish to keep on top of nursing. One big difference that i have found is the younger students learning modalities. They don't like to sit for long periods of time being talked to. they love to discuss and interact. i usually try very hard to ask them questionsto encourage critical thinking (which is so lacking despite our ability to give it a name--when we used to teach it by increasing the amount of clinical practice--so you had to think critically)(but that is another post in itself).
I have had experience with very young nurses doing classroom and clinical (straight out of 4 yr degree, or even 2 year). I have found many of them to be lacking in clinical skills, and one is so immature that she "picks" her fav students and lets them have all the skills that arise in clinical. I have also seen older instructors who "pick" one student to hound until they break or drop out of program. This makes me sick--someday I am going to run my own idealized nursing school. i will hand pick my instructors, monitor them in classroom and clinical, and remove the ones who are not working well with my students. (My fantasy--when I win the lottery-haha).
Aug 20, '02Joined: May '00; Posts: 2,065; Likes: 8Zumalong, I think you need a very experienced educator from Europe then, LOL
Sep 4, '02Occupation: RN Joined: Sep '02; Posts: 166; Likes: 42This thread hasn't been posted to in a while, but I want to add my teaching experience from hell. I am BSN prepared and absolutely love to teach. I took a part time, PRN clinical teaching position with a practical nursing program. The med-surg portion seemed just fantastic, until I began to have behavioural problems with a few of the students. One student was assigned to do an OR observational experience. Because of the large size of the class, I had 9 students and attempted to "farm" out about half of them to various areas of the hospital, like OR, ER, and Cath Lab. This particular student called me at about 10:30 to tell me that an interesting case was coming up, and would it be alright if she skipped lunch to see the case. I said of course, and went back to the students with me on the floor. After lunch, I went to the OR to simply say hello and make sure all was well with the student. No one could find her. A surgeon, of all people, told me that the student had said we were having half a day, and left around 10:30. Needless to say, I was very upset, and the whole thing gave us a black eye in our image with the host hospital. The student was given a written reprimand, but it made me less trustful of the rest of the group.
I took a full time teaching position with this same school and agreed to teach pediatrics, as my choice was OB or Peds. My area is med-surg, with strong preference for the heart and neuro. I agreed to teach peds because I falsely believed that, as a general nurse, I could teach anything, and was offered a class in Med-Surg for the next quarter. I was so wrong! I could not teach pediatrics because I am not a pediatric nurse. I was studying twice as much as the students, just trying to prepare for the next day's class.
I am cutting this short because of space, but, the program itself was so disorganized and no support of the teachers was offered that I decided I did not want to continue there. I still would love to teach, but in my comfort area of expertise.
My students sang my praises when I was doing med-surg clinicals, but I was flat out incompetent as a pediatric clinical instructor, and it showed. This was partially my fault, and, IMO, a lot the fault of the director of the program for putting me in that position.
Sep 11, '02Occupation: RN Joined: Jan '01; Posts: 31; Likes: 1Would like to ask for your assistance. Have been following all the replies to this discussion and learning a lot about the different experiences everyone has had in their. I am presently in the MSN program and would like to as what skills do you feel that nursing instructors should posess and how they can attain them? Hopefully I can gain some insight so I can try to be an effective instructor myself. I have checked the current literature but would really like some direct feedback. Thank you in advance for any information you can give me.
Sep 12, '02Joined: Jan '02; Posts: 1,614; Likes: 2So? Um sure if there were super schooled folks who couldn't teach. How do you measure a person's teaching reputation. Better to snach up real teachers, than pay threw the nose for a person whose spent too much time without developing teaching and getting old. actual nursing is encompassing so many different skills; Imagine teaching it?
Sep 12, '02Joined: May '00; Posts: 2,065; Likes: 8What makes a good teacher? What makes a good nurse? What makes a good ..................whatever?
Isn't that always the question, where you sit and can debate all night long?
It's very personal and has to do with 1) skills, learned and the ones a person possesses from her/ his belly. 2) personality, the teachers and the students. 3) school/ study surroundings. 4) money . 5) enthousiasm, again on both sides of the classroom. 6) time. 7) picking out the most important stuff to teach (or as is said have faith in leaving things out, when there are problems in a class, take the problem first)
and 8) evaluate your class every time and listen to the feedback giving to you and change the things that weren't so good from the students point of view. 9) have patience, no professor felt from the sky. Don't teach for the fastest students, but orientate yourself on the "slower" ones. 10) don't laugh about questions, that one is difficult sometimes, I admit that, there are no stupid questions, just stupid answers.
and most of all: have fun at what you do, be honest, admit you don't know everything and listen to your students.
Take care, Renee