Professionalism and Credentials - page 6
OK, just some thoughts here so early in the morning (after work...) I've been thinking on how we can improve the image of nursing and a couple of thoughts come to mind. First, what do people... Read More
Nov 15, '01HI,
I envy all of you because most of you are finished with school.
Nursing is my second career choice and I'm very non-traditional, my oldest son is in college too.
I started out last fall in a BSN program at a wonderful Catholic College and have taken some really meaningful classes like Christian Ethics, Philosophy, Ethics, Liturature, Crit. thinking, not to mention many science courses.
For me personally I am transferring to an RN program at another Catholic college to get the associate degree. Four years is a long time without money and after talking with several RN's and re-thinking my goal path, this is the right decision for me.
Eventually I would like to get the BSN or perhaps RN to MSN. I really am excited about finally being able to get into clinicals and "do" something. I don't regret any of the classes that I have taken so far.
I just feel that "just one way" does not work for everyone, you have to choose the program and path that is right for you. Whether it is LPN, RN, BSN, etc.
Nov 15, '01Tracy, being independent practitioners benefits the dental hygienists by providing them more employment and entrepenurial options. Just think: they can form their own agencies and contract with dental practices, with schools to provide education and screening, with businesses to provide employee screenings and cleaning, with rural and underserved urban areas who don't have access to dental care.
My own company provides on-site dental care for a specific category of employees. Once hygienists were approved for autonomous practice, we immediately moved to hire them to provide cleanings and screenings in between dental visits. Ultimately it will free the dentists to do actual dental work, decrease the numer of dental visits required, and save my company money. Win-win situation.
Think what nurses could do if we were able to practice autonomously!
Nov 15, '01Ok, careernurse your right art appreciation is not going to make me a better nurse, but organic and biochem, microbiology, pharmacology, pathophysiology, nutrition, and sociology are. Fundamentals of speech is going to help me talk in front of a group better, intercultural communicatoions is going to make me understand why some of my patients act the way they do. statistics is going to help me do and understand research, which is the basis of everything we do. these are some examples of what makes the BSN's an asset. with in 6 months bsn's and adn's are at the same level clinically. Their knowledge base is much stronger than any ADN nurse unless that nuse has a degree in a science. I am an ADN, my wife is a BSN and she is by far a better nurse than I , because her understanding at the base level of what we are is more developed because of the classes I mentioned. Think before you speak. I understand now what the ANA was trying to say and do I think they just went about it all wrong, like most of the things they do.
Nov 15, '01The classes described above that differentiate BSN from ADN (supposedly) WERE required for my ADN.
Nov 15, '01Stargazer,
Honestly, I'm not trying to be negative here, so bare with me. I still don't understand, or see the benefit. Dental Hygenist are in nearly as big demand as nurses, so they don't necessarily NEED the employment options. I've not discussed this with my mom or sister yet, so I don't know their opinions. That profession has never been a big one to carry liability ins. Does this mean they will now need to carry that? When I was in elementary school(LONG time ago ), my mom would come every year to do education and screening, independantly. That's not a new concept. What were dentist doing that wasn't actual dental work?? What are the limitations of what the hygenist can and can't do? How does dental hygenist set up a portable office to provide these services?? Are we talking about going out and educating people, looking at teeth, advising, passing out a few toothbrushes and floss OR are we actually talking about going out to the people, taking the cavatron, taking the polisher, taking the xray machine, etc?? I'm confusalated..pweeze help me.
Nov 17, '01Hi all y'all
[comments after the quote]
Originally posted by Lausana
To me the only way to be considered "professionals" is to be professional and regard each other that way. As far as how we are perceived by the "outside world" is understandable--to someone not familiar with what each degree covers it would seem unusual that you can receive an RN from an ADN or BSN, so most likely until there is a formal standard of a BSN for new grads this will be the case.
Amoung ourselves, it is up to us to treat each other with respect as NURSES not ADNs or BSNs.
I will probably take a foreign language, a WWII history class to help me relate better with those who lived through it that I may come in contact with, etc.--it is our education so we might as well make the most of it as we see fit for ourselves because we know in the end we will be a nurse.)
Sorry for all the rambling-I just get a little tired of the arguing I see here! Please more positive ideas everybody!!
Professional is an ATTITUDE!!! NOT a degree.
Do we ALL need to continue learning new things? [this includes the nuts & bolts of health care as well as the 'useless' things like music, art, needle point and such] YES!!!! It helps us relate better to our clients.
Which is better, someone with a four year degree [BSN] or some who has a 2 yr ADN + 2 extra years of electives?? or someone like Fred S who after getting his BS in English and teaching for a few years went back and got licensed as an LPN? [because that was what the school closest to him had].
Regardless of what our degree is, we still MUST
relate to, and talk with our clients on their level. Regardless if they are a 3 year old in with a fracture or the parents [who are still in high school] of a premy on a vent or one of our MDs in having a baby by c-section. I use these examples because I do Maternal-Child services when I'm not flying a desk.
It does not matter what our [job] function is, MSN, BSN, ADN, LPN, CNA or housekeeping -- Unit manager, DON, or staff nurse. We should all be part of the team, concerned with delivering good care to those entrusted to us.
To be treated like professionals we need to ACT like a professional.
Maybe a required class in ALL health care schools we should have 'professional behavior 101' :}Last edit by mercnurse on Nov 17, '01
Nov 17, '01[QUOTE]Originally posted by BrandyBSN
[B]Matt wasnt starting a "who is better than who" debate. However, I find your comment about "hospitals prefering ADN nurses over BSN nurses" to be obsurd. I have seen many advertisments for RNs, with "BSN PREFERED", but I have yet to see one that says "ADN PREFRERD". If you find out of these, please post the address of the job listing page, so that I can be corrected.
Neither makes you are better bedside nurse than the other. However, the compensation issue is valid.
Looking at most adverstiments in many areas of the country, the hospitals and other facilites advertise for RNs, LPNs and NARs or CNAs. The pay here for a BSN in comparison to a ADN is fifty cents a hour in my area. Pay difference that are measurable are years of experience and job title for example, supervisor or nurse manager.
Nov 17, '01. Their knowledge base is much stronger than any ADN nurse unless that nuse has a degree in a science. I am an ADN, my wife is a BSN and she is by far a better nurse than I , because her understanding at the base level of what we are is more developed because of the classes I mentioned. Think before you speak. I understand now what the ANA was trying to say and do I think they just went about it all wrong, like most of the things they do. [/B][/QUOTE]
There are more then one reason why a nurse's ability to care for patients is better then another. Why not return to school if you feel so strongly this will make a better nurse?
Nov 18, '01Hi. Yes, attitude is vital to professionalism. If this hasn't already been suggested as an alternative solution, I'm going to suggest that all nurses from LPN to BSN be designated as technical nurses. Before you start snorting steam, read me out. Nursing should establish an ROTC like program at the high school level, enlisting those interested in working in health care, especially nurses, and training them as CNAs. This can start in the junior year of high school. Once graduated, the CNA will have to have at least six months of experience before enrolling in a nursing program of choice. If the CNA wants to remain a CNA, then he/she can do that and as long as the quality of his or her work is improving still be able to see improvements in wages and benefit while seeing increased participation in decisions that affect patient care. Nursing should strongly encourage employers to adopt a clinical career ladder in which nurses can obtain a basic nursing education from any nursing program and either stay where they are or moving to the next level. The professional status would be only assigned to those who have a master's degree in nursing. In order to be admitted to a master's level program, one would either have to have a BSN or a bachelor's or above from another program. Those who have a degree from another area will have to take additional courses normally required for BSN graduates before they could be fully admitted into an MSN program. This will not totally solve the superiority issue, but it may partially do so. If nurses who are financially strapped are assured of support in their educational pursuits that would ensure we will have some nurses willing to move to the professional level which I feel will be desparately needed in the future as our public gets increasingly sophisticated about their health care needs.
Back to professionalism. I feel that nursing could use more nurse support groups maybe moderated by other parties. We have quite a few drug and alcohol addicted nurses and quite a few nurses struggling with other personal issues. I feel that this is the reason why many nurses never achieve the level of professionalism we may be capable of. Many of us that have been at the bedside for a while get to the point where we internalize our work and we have that coupled with our personal problems. Support groups may be meaningful to many of us who feel that we need that special hug or shoulder in person or additional assistance. Ok, let me have it!
Nov 18, '01BrandyBSN :-)
I understand what you mean but those jobs that require BSN preferred does come with a mangerial position. I am an ADN RN who will be going for my BSN but not for the reasons for people are saying. It is just one of the hoops you have to go through to get where you really want to be.
I don't feel either one is better or the other. But if a RN wants to become an advance nurse practitioner then I would say go for it. Some nurses are better w/leadership qualities but cannot function on the floor and vice versa. I say get your BSN for your own accomplishment. Now with the nursing shortage being so critical having a ADN VS BSN wont matter just have a current RN license
Nov 18, '01TWO YEARS AGO I WAS NOTIFIED BY MY HEAD NURSE THAT I WOULD HAVE A SENIOR BSN STUDENT FOR A TWELVE WEEK PRACTICUM ON MY OPEN HEART STEPDOWN UNIT.I RECIEVED A THIRTY PAGE DOCUMENT FROM HER COLLEGE OUTLINING WHAT MY QUALIFICATIONS NEEDED TO BE TO BE APPROPRIATE TO TEACH THEIR STUDENT,ONE OF THEM BEING THAT I HAVE A BSN MYSELF. I HAD TWELVE YEARS OF CARDIAC EXPERIENCE, ICU EXPERIENCE AND CCRN CREDENTIAL BUT AN ADN DEGREE. I WENT TO MY MANAGER AND TOLD HER THAT I WAS SORRY I APPARENTLY WASN'T QUALIFIED TO DO THIS ORIENTATION BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE THE CORRECT INITIALS AFTER MY NAME.THEY LET ME DO THE ORIENTAION ANYWAY,THE ORIENTEE DID WELL, LEARNED A LOT AND WENT ON TO BE A CARDIAC NURSE.I RECIEVED A LETTER FROM THE COLLEGE THANKING ME FOR HER GOOD EXPERIENCE,TO WHICH I REPLIED THAT MAYBE THEY SHOULD REEVALUATE THEIR PRECONCEPTIONS ABOUT ADN NURSES. WHEN IS THIS BSN VS ADN VS DIPLOMA NONSENSE GOING TO STOP AND WE ALL REALIZE THAT INITIALS DON'T MAKE A BETTER NURSE AND THAT WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME SIDE.
Nov 18, '01You can't possibly suggest that all RN have masters degrees! That should be optional. My ulitmate goal is to obtain my masters degree and in that time I will be an advanced nurse practitioner. That is the beauty of nursing so flexible. Many of us have different reasons for becoming nurses and situations that may not allow us to pursue that endeavor right away. I love nursing and respect others like myself in it. Unfortunately we don't have enough nurses to staff our units. I am pro education I believe no matter what career you chose make education your priority.
Nov 19, '01Hi there I was a LVN for 4 years and when I went to RN school it was a breeze. The knowledge I learned was enormous. Clinicals were a nonstressor. The realization was that RN school was a big review w/ learning delegating and leadership. The NCLEX-RN for me wasn't bedside but delegation. When I was searching for a job they would not acknowledge my LVN experience. I did it all I worked on med/surg floors, TCU, and PEDS. My role changed because I am "THE NURSE". It is very political and frustrating at times but I wouldn't trade my LVN course for the world. It was the toughest, grueling thing I had ever went through. I say LVNs are true nurses. Good luck in your endeavors I am sure you will make a great RN because you are a great LVN. :--)