Professionalism and Credentials

Nurses General Nursing

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OK, just some thoughts here so early in the morning (after work...)

I've been thinking on how we can improve the image of nursing and a couple of thoughts come to mind.

First, what do people think about having a baccelaureate be the entry-level for nursing? (I ask this as an associate degree nurse, who's going to be going for my BSN, so bear with me.) I realize that this has been an ongoing debate for decades, but hear me out. Nurses are constantly looking to get paid more (as we should be), and demanding more respect (as we should be). However, I good-naturedly ask, why should we be expecting those things if the entry-level education requirement is the same as an auto mechanic or a dental hygenist? Granted, we hold people's health (and many times lives) in our hands -- but shouldn't that be even more reason to demand a higher base education? True, with the nursing shortage the way it is, it's not necessarily a practical idea; but perhaps there's a way to grandfather in the existing ADN and diploma nurses and make a transition to the BSN requirement over a few years?

Second, it seems to me that many nurses (at least one's that I work with) are reluctant to get specialty certified in their fields (CCRN, CEN, etc.). Why? Sure, time is frequently a factor (especially if you have kids), but the reason I hear most is that there's no financial incentive from hospitals. So? What better way to reinforce that "a nurse is not a nurse" philosophy that to get specialty certified. Also what better way to impress upon patients, physicians, and the public that we're well educated and masters of our art than to get certification? Doctors love to get certified and credentialed because it increases patient confidence and garners collegue respect. Would it not do the same for nurses? The financial incentive (if you really need one), is that if the public see us as specialists, there will be more public support for paying us as specialists and professionals.

Just my $00.02 worth. Now I'm going to bed... :mad:

WoW KC Chick you gave it to me good!:)

I guess being told off is better than being ignored......

I am sorry I offended you, I was only trying to bring in some objective sociology into the discussion-not cut on people.

I have truely enjoyed all the responces on this thread-it's been enlightening.

I am glad you responded though, b/c if you took as a cut I'm sure others did also-sorry;)

Although, I still think a sociology professor would agree with what I said. I am not using "Sub-group" as a bad word.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone (LPN, ADN, BSN, MSN, & Phd included),

Julie M.,RN :D

Julie, I appreciate your response and apology.

However, do you realize what 'sub' means?? Try 'below' or 'beneath'. How is one, who is part of this group, not supposed to take offense to it? BTW, we are nurses, not sociology professors.:D

I believe I also took offense to the statement that ADN RNs should be labeled 'nurse assistants'. It was more than just the term sub-group that got me going.

I too wish you and everyone a Happy Thanksgiving. Have a wonderful day.....and don't be ashamed to undo the top button of your pants and loosen your belt. *(during and/or after dinner. ;) )

Hi -

I've heard that story about Dr. Drew bleeding to death outside of a "white" hospital for years. The story has such poetic irony that it just HAS to be true. But it's not.

Dr. Drew was in an automobile accident and died of his inuries IN hospital in 1950.

Dr. Edward Bensley, professor emeritus of medicine at McGill, wrote to The McGill Reporter when that publication repeated the myth.

Part of the evidence that Dr. Bensley had was a copy of a letter written by Dr. Ford [another physician who was with Dr. Drew in the accident], in which Ford tried to lay the 'bled to death' canard to rest."

"Doctor Drew's cause of death was that of a broken neck and complete blockage of the blood flow back to the heart. Immediately following the accident in which he was half thrown out of the car, and actually crushed to death by the car as it turned over the second time, the doctors who were were able to, got out of the car quickly and came to Doctor Drew's rescue, but it was of no avail because even at that time, it was quite obvious that his chances of surviving were nil."

I'll tell you what made *me* mad. I heard this story on television a few years ago during Black History month, and I called the reporter to let her know the facts. They did stop running the PSA with the urban rumor in it, but they stopped airing information on Dr. Drew at all!! I think this is wrong, as he was a brilliant man.

I think that he deserves no less attention and respect just because his death was not so ironic and politically charged. And his name was Charles R. Drew, MD.

Love

Dennie

Specializes in Pediatric Rehabilitation.

lol, KC..you rock, girl!!

what about gas?? I know it's okay for the sub-culture, but is it okay for THEM to expell???

Originally posted by Teshiee

If they decided to make all nurses BSN we would have no nurses unless they revamp the system to allow them in the workforce faster. Then you have to consider the average RN she is not a teenager. For some women it is a second career.

I find this a flawed line of thinking. At the moment there two avenues to become a nurse: Associate's degree and Bahelor's degree. The fact that one can become a nurse in two years versus four doesn't seem to be resulting in an explosion of two-year nurses and a lack of four-year nurses. If making becoming a nurse easier was the answer to the nursing shortage, we could start one-year or six-month courses and voila! problem solved.

If someone is truly willing to follow a dream they will. I know a couple of second-career doctors. All that school doesn't seem to have slowed them down a bit.

Specializes in Pediatric Rehabilitation.
Originally posted by mattcastens

I find this a flawed line of thinking. At the moment there two avenues to become a nurse: Associate's degree and Bahelor's degree. The fact that one can become a nurse in two years versus four doesn't seem to be resulting in an explosion of two-year nurses and a lack of four-year nurses. If making becoming a nurse easier was the answer to the nursing shortage, we could start one-year or six-month courses and voila! problem solved.

If someone is truly willing to follow a dream they will. I know a couple of second-career doctors. All that school doesn't seem to have slowed them down a bit.

__________________

~ Matt

____________________________________________________

Flawed" because it doesn't agree with your opinion?? Check the stats, Matt. The number of ASN's outnumber the BSN's. People DREAM of alot of things they never get. I DREAM of winning the lottery, I DREAM of making a million bucks as a nurse; neither of which is likely to happen. Nursing is NOT a dream for many; not even a "calling", it's a means to put food on the table. EVERYONE'S lifestyle will not allow four years of college. Your people seeking careers later in life are more likely to go the ADN route. Kids straight out of HS are more likely to do the BSN route. No, there's no explosion of ADN's, but if you cut the ADN programs out, there WILL be an explosive loss of nurses entering the profession. People with families and financial obligations will find another field that appreciates Associate programs; like computer fields.

Do you REALLY think someone can be taught to be a nurse in six months or one year???? That goes completely against what you've been saying here. You DID just say that would solve the problem, didn't ya??? Matt, are you starting to argue just for the sake of perpetuating this thread????

Specializes in LTC, MDS/careplans, Unit Manager.
At the moment there two avenues to become a nurse: Associate's degree and Bahelor's degree.

I hate to beat a dead horse...but I feel I must point out that there are more than "two avenues to become a nurse". I went to school for a total of 3 years. I took "per-nursing" classes such as psychology, sociology, nutrition, and communication/computer classes. I then took one year of LPN classes and graduated from a community college. I then took a few more classes after that while I decided what exactly I wanted to do next. If I had decided to go on and complete the RN program at that time, I would have had to complete another two years, making it three years to obtain an ADN. That was all 7-10 years ago. I am still an LPN and I am proud to be!! I just wanted to show that the term "nurse" is a little broader than previously stated. There are just multiple ways in which one can achieve the title!!

If making becoming a nurse easier was the answer to the nursing shortage, we could start one-year or six-month courses and voila! problem solved.

The one year LPN program has been around for quite awhile, and there still seems to be a nursing shortage. I don't think the majority of people think..."hey I want to do something...I think I will be a LPN...it only takes a year"! I think nursing is something you have to want to do, not something you partake on a whim just because you can achieve it in a year! If that were the case the profession would be flooded. The option is out there and there is still a shortage.

Just my 2 cents!!

Shari

Originally posted by nurs4kids

Do you REALLY think someone can be taught to be a nurse in six months or one year???? That goes completely against what you've been saying here. You DID just say that would solve the problem, didn't ya??? Matt, are you starting to argue just for the sake of perpetuating this thread???? [/b]

Of course I don't believe that ... I was pointing out that the idea that ADN programs will solve the nursing shortage is not logical thinking. If making things easier was the answer, then a six month RN program would solve everything.

I AM NOT SAYING MAKE NURSING SCHOOL EASIER, MORE REALISTIC. I DON'T AGREE IN MAKING NURSES MUST HAVING BSN TO BE CONSIDERED PROFESSIONAL. I AM SURE THAT THERE ARE SOME WOMEN WHO DO NOT WISH TO GO TO SCHOOL FOR 4 YEARS WHEN THEY CAN KNOCK IT OUT IN 2 YEARS. I AM NOT FLAWED I AM A REALIST. THERE IS A NURSING SHORTAGE ADDING MORE DEGREES WONT CHANGE WHAT A PERSON THINKS OF YOU. IT IS A PURE INDIVIDUAL THING. I AM AN ADN NURSE WHO WILL BE GOING FOR MY BSN, MSN ADVANCE PRATICE. NO MATTER WHAT PATHS WE CHOOSE THE NURSING BOARD LICENSE WILL SAY RN REGARDLESS WHAT IS BEHIND YOUR NAME. I AM JUST SICK OF THE DRAMA UNTIL THE BOARD OF NURSING SAYS BSN ONLY THEN SO BE IT. FOR RIGHT NOW WHATEVER YOUR GOAL IN OBTAINING A CAREER IN NURSING YOU ARE STILL A RN.

Originally posted by mattcastens

Of course I don't believe that ... I was pointing out that the idea that ADN programs will solve the nursing shortage is not logical thinking. If making things easier was the answer, then a six month RN program would solve everything.

may be I am confused but weren't the ADN, and LPN programs started because of nursing shortages. The LPN program because of WWII and the ADN as a pilot to see if more nurses could be produced kind of like an assemblty line. The point matt is trying to make is that the best thing for nursing would be for everyone to unite at one level. I am an ADN in a BSN copletion program and for me personally I have become a better nurse at the bedside since I started this, It is not just about the nursing side of things it is that I can better relate to all my patients. It seems that in every time this subject comes up it is the same people using the same excuses for instance ADN's score better on the N-CLEX. I do not know if I scored better and franly I do not care. Looking back I was basically taught only things that that appeared on the test in significant numbers the year before . The instructors skipped many disease processes because of this. I was told I needed to critically think, but was never taught how. Where I went to school I had professors who had not worked in the field in years. All my BSN professors worked regularly in the field the specialize in. I had people teaching me pediatrics who had never worked in pediatrics. You people call that a better education. If everyone becoming a BSN will not work in your opinion why does it work in North Dakota? Why is the Veterans administration changing its policy to all nurses working for the VA must be BSN prepared by I beleive 2004? Why has it always worked in the Military ? I know this will upset I few people But these are just A few points to ponder.

Hi. The sad fact is that we live in a world where we are judged according to certain characteristics or qualities whether that be our religion, culture, gender, ethnicity and so on. Certain mindsets are so ingrained that it does not matter how much education, skills, experience, popularity one has, greater than necessary obstacles have to be overcome because of disliked, unpopular, or unrespected qualities. This will go on until the end of time. But knowing this should not deter a fight for progress in other areas of our work.

The truth of the matter is that knowledge is power, and there is a great emphasis on human intelligence today. We see that evident with the perhaps faddish increase in applications to the CIA and FBI. For example, how many nurses do you see being consulted as intelligence experts in the pop media. It's usually the doctors or lawyers. Even though their rankings are not as high as nurses, they are seen as being authority figures. Most nurses have a great deal of intelligence, skills, experience, but anytime the media or government writes or talks about intelligence or even great skills and abilities, its usually in reference to doctors. Nurses get accolades for our nurturing, supporting, and caring abilities. But then wasn't that what nursing was created for in the first place?

In relation to the above paragraph, the other truth is that money is most powerful in the worldview. It rules most things. Nursing wouldn't be asking for more if this weren't true. Not all doctors are respected, but as a group, they are respected for their knowledge, skills, abilities, and experience. Therefore, they are deemed justified to receive more income, etc. etc. So, more education is not about PROVING oneself, it's about MOVING oneself into a position where he/she may receive even greater respect, if that's possible, along with all the other fringes. I feel that one of the best ways to accomplish this that nursing does this as a group.

gpip, I'm so sorry that you feel that way about ADN education....especially since you went through that program yourself. Very sad.

Every program is different whether it be ADN or BSN. Unfortunately, the individual college programs are not required to be uniform in the way that they teach their students. I feel that I recieved a good educational start, for my career in nursing, in my ADN program. There were instructors for the specialty areas that WORKED, and had experience, in those specialty areas. (OB, Peds, Psych) We were, as students, able to draw from that. We also had most clinical experiences in inner city and specialty hospitals. For example, we had our Peds clinical rotation at Children's Mercy Hospital here in Kansas City, MO. I got to work with patients that had very rare problems. One of my patients had billiary atresia.

Kudos to you for continuing with your education. I'm glad that you feel you, and your patients, are benefitting from this experience.

Good Luck

Anne:)

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