Passing meds you did not pull.

[busy-bee]

Hypothetically......if the unit you were assigned to, was made to split a medication cart.........and if one LPN wanted you to administer meds while she pulled the meds...would you? And if this LPN was so familiar (ugh) with the residents, she pulls medications without looking at the MAR, would you still? And the meds are already crushed and you really have NO IDEA what you are administering, would you still even then? And if you really had no choice because the nurse never would give you the keys to the med cart so you could pass your own...then what? And then if the D.O.N. states they really don't want to make two sets of key...then what? Then when you get the chance (while she is at lunch) to view the M.A.R., some meds she signed off while others she did not...and when you inform her of this, she wants you to sign those off. Not to mention.....you never witnessed the narc count nor where you given report about the patients. Hypothetically, what would you do? And hypothetically say alll shifts do this on this particular unit...so if you complain you are going to be targeted, that is hypothetically.

[Dolce, RN]

Oh man. There are just so many things wrong with that scenario. There is no way in the world I would want to be giving mystery meds to my patients.

[TrudyRN]

You need to absolutely refuse to do this, either as the puller or the passer.

You need to get a new job right away. Today. Ain't no hypothesis about it.

You need to notify the Administrator, the state BON, the families of the residents if you're feeling bold, and the newspaper, radio and TV, AARP, and anyone else you can think of.

Next, you should demand an exam of the heads of the 2 baboons (no insult meant to baboons) who cooked up this illegal, dangerous, and outrageous scheme. Are there actually nurses who are going along with this illegal and hare-brained procedure? It's these chicken-hearted, terrified, lazy, stupid, I can't think of enough printable bad names to call them - nurses who are going along with this, and the bullies like the LPN and her DON (what an idiot) who always get away with these things - because the chickens won't turn them in. Fear, fear, fear. We have nothing to fear but fear itself. These idiot nurses need to find their courage and REFUSE to go along with this mess even a single sencond more. You pull it, you crush it, you give it, you sign it out. You do yours and I do mine. ONly in the most serious emergency should anyone even consider to violate this most basic principle of safe medicating.

For the cost of a notebook and a set of keys, this could be so simply changed.

Have nothing to do with it. Not even a nickel for the subway. "ANNIE"

[leslymill]

I rread this thrread and find myself on a space shuttle that just landed on MARS. In my pocket I have two sets of keys.

Don't tell them your reporting them. I did that once and I Am no longer working as a nurse,

[CritterLover, BSN, RN]

what you are talking about is just ... insane.

it is fine to administer meds that you didn't pull from the drug cart or the omnicell, if the meds are still in the original packaging -- with drug name and doseage on the blister packaging or the vial.

i do this often. someone will pop their head into a busy room and say "do you need anything?" i'll reply "yeah -- can you get me 40mg of lasix?" they go and get it, so i can stay with my patient, and bring it to me with a syringe. i draw it up and give it. no problem there.

however, to give a med that has been pulled and taken out of the packaging is just foolish. no way i'd do it.

[pirap]

The only time I would give meds that I didn't pull was IF I had a copy of the MAR or could look up the order myself and IF the medication was still packaged and UNOPENED.

[Dolce, RN]

It wouldn't help for the facility to make a new set of keys for the two nurses because there is only one med cart. That probably means they both have access to the narcotics. What would happen if the narcotic count was off? Who would be ultimately responsible? They need to invest in another med cart.

That facility sounds ridiculous.

[bigsyis]

NO! Uh-uh. No way. Nada. Wouldn't do it. No how, no way.

[pawashrn]

if the meds are still in their sealed wrappers and the labels are able to be read. What stops you from looking over the MAR as a second check. If labels are missing and just sitting in a cup. NO. Your license is your bread and butter, don't risk losing it for anyone. Ask the other person not to remove labels, and if they do, then let them pass the drug. I personally don't cover someone else's glucometer reading w/ insulin. I didn't stick the patient, I don't give the insulin. Avoid starting a bad habit. Good luck

[Bocephus71RN-BSN, BSN, RN]

I wonder if this is how they pass their meds when a state surveyor is standing over their shoulder? I would direct that exact question to the DON, and promptly notify the proper regulating agency for a surprise visit to the facility.

[BlearnRN]

That is completely insane!! No mystery med pass!! If you administer it you should know what meds they are and mark it off of the mar. I don't understand why you can't look at the mar during the med pass to verify it? Why can't you share the keys if she will not get you a set? I would bring it up again and say you don't feel comfortable administering meds you have not opened and compared to the mar. If they have a problem with that----get out!!! Just remember the 5 rights of medication administration.

[pagandeva2000, LPN]

We have a similar weird situation with something like this. LPNs in my hospital are not allowed to administer flu and pneumonia vaccines without an RN to screen the patient first. Even though there may be an order from a provider. I think this is silly. However, when we go to an RN to 'screen' the patient, they ask us "Did you ask the questions?" (allergy to eggs, etc...). So, I will do that to get the screening, and then, we are allowed to administer the vaccine.

Anyway, now that flu season has just begun, our municipal hospital has advertized on television that we will give these shots to the public for free. Now, for walk in patients (and there are MILLIONS of them) have to be screened by the RN based on a standing order given by the medical director. We do computerized charting. The RN MUST screen or we cannot even document, and they assigned two nurses to do this; an RN and an LPN. It makes no sense for two nurses using the same room to screen (something the RN must do first), then log off the same computer for the LPN to administer the vaccine, then document the fact that she gave the injection. Some RNs have just decided to document that they did both. One RN got wise and said that since she actually did not give the injection, why should she document? What if something happened to the patient?? Such as an incorrect technique, or anything wild? So, now, some RNs are refusing to work with us, because of this rule. I see it as administration not looking out for the better interests of both nurses, but they do not care. As long as they get the numbers, they do not give a hoot how much trouble they are starting for us. Bottom line is this is a similar thing, someone documenting for something they did not perform. Wrong thing in a court of law, and what we were taught in nursing school.

[pagandeva2000, LPN]

I rread this thrread and find myself on a space shuttle that just landed on MARS. In my pocket I have two sets of keys.

Don't tell them your reporting them. I did that once and I Am no longer working as a nurse,

If you don't mind me asking, what happened? Are you still licensed? And, yeah, for sure, do NOT let anyone know you are reporting them.