Paramedics are taking our Nursing job!

Nurses General Nursing

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I got to beat the dead horse, I'm feeling it today as I read the classified's. Before flaming me to the burn unit, I was the 89th paramedic in Iowa. I got in on the first class opened to general population at UIHC in 1980.My license was #89. I also precept. EMT-P students in out Level 1 trauma center, so I know the training, the standard protocols taught, etc. that a paramedic obtains.

I see the way hospitals are dealing with this economy, replacing RN's with Paramedics. Let see, 5 yrs of college vs a 6 month class, basically a semester if going full time(the EMSLRC at the U of Iowa has a class that will take you from EMT basic to EMT-P, only one in country I believe). Who would you want at triage? Or administering meds that they have no idea the side effects? It's a crazy world. Keep the medic's on the street and leave the nursing to nurses!

Specializes in Peds/Neo CCT,Flight, ER, Hem/Onc.
The problem I see in most facilities why nurses are scared of the paramedics is that they are working under the nurses license not the doctors which needs to be changed and is technically illegal by some EMS standards.

Actually, the only person that works under an RN's license is the RN herself. As the RN it is my responsibility to delegate appropriately. The only time my license would be on the line would be if I had you as a medic do something outside of your SOP in the ER. So if you took it upon yourself to say...hang Propofol (not saying you would) it would be your @$$ in a sling not mine but if I told you to do it then it's all on me. Conversely if you really ***** an IV and there are complications I'm in the clear because it is a procedure within your SOP. Your explanation of what a medic could provide in the ER is very accurate and appropriate. You work within your training to provide care in such a manner that it frees up the RN to do what only the RN can do. In my neck of the woods that's called teamwork. I do not believe that it is acceptable to view the medic/ RN role as interchangeable. They are complimentary and work very well together when egos do not get the better of us.

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Specializes in ED, Flight.

Sharrie,

In addition to JJ's answer, some of us just want to expand our experiences and help people in additional ways. I work both in the hospital (RN in the ER) and outside (board-certified flight paramedic, search and rescue medic on an EMS certified team, ground rural medic). I can't get my fix in one place. I'm interested in different kinds of patient care and challenges, so I work in both environments. The only time I got my fix in one place was as an army small-team medic. Then I could do trauma, sick call, public health all on the same job.

Mordechai

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:D yes i had spotted that.

how about a slightly different slant then, it may just refocus the direction and give me a little information about how things work in the us. in the uk our paramedics are now degree level practitioners in their own rights, they attend a university and take paramedic science foundation degree course before they are able to practice. they are registered with the health professionals council and are accountable for their own practice, having to demonstrate professional development, continued education much in the same way we do as nurses. in fact it is fair to say that paramedics are equivalent to registered nurses in thier own specialist field of practice (i.e. pre-hospital). if you suggested to a uk paramedic that he may want to work in a hospital environment and work alongside nursing staff (s)he would be greatly offended. if you suggested that a paramedic could do a similar role to a nurse they would laugh, it is considered as a different profession here and never the twain shall meet.

how is it different in the us, what type of training do the paramedics have there and why would they want to train as a pre-hospital practitioner and then work in a hospital environment?

unfortunately i the us paramedic education varies by what the each state requires. in texas there are 3 levels emt-basic, emt-i, and paramedic. all classes are through university and are completion certificate usually. for paramedics you can receive an associates degree (2year) which is the minimum degree for nurses to. after you complete your class we test through national registry of emergency medical technicians both in all of our skills and a computer based test which nether are done at the school you attended so there is helping with extra points so you can pass. most states including texas use the national registry as you grade and issue you your state cert and we are required to do ce's as well. however you do not have to take the national registry if you stay in the state you are certified in because some think the test is to hard to take again and some states don't use the national registry at all and create there own tests.

as for paramedics working in hospital is solely based on pay and benefits. to be frank paramedics don't make **** in the us. an average paramedic in texas only makes about $34000 or £21000 to start (based on a 40 hour work week) which a new grad nurse starts at $43500 or £26600. plus most fire brigades in the us are cross-trained as paramedics so if you want to be a paramedic you have to be a firefighter. which a good handful of firefighters hate being medics and don't have the same passion as others. most like the hospital setting because you learn more about definitive care and pay is better, but there are a lot of skills that you can't use. most medics including myself are looking to get into nursing or thinking about it and some hospitals like the one i work at will send you through nursing school for free!!!! i have done research in the possibility of transferring my credentials to either the uk or australia and it seems the there is a little more respect and care put toward paramedics and their profession unlike here where healthcare is all about profit to the higher ups. including ambulance companies that will charge you for the sheet that you lay on during transport at triple there cost.

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Specializes in Dialysis.
Anybody else thinking of that South Park episode where the humans from the future came and took all the jobs? "They took ar jobs!" I've been cracking up all day. Where's my plaid flannel shirt?

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/104259

They took err jeebs!

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Specializes in Dialysis.

Ryandfd, Cruffler, Enlighten me!

So how does one, as an EMS or a paramedic, work in a hospital? I guess my only experience with them is when we have an emergency and we need transport from the dialysis clinic to the hospital. Or our non-mobile patients come in from the NH or something. That's all I know! What can a paramedic do that EMS can't? What do y'all do when you "work in the hospital?" You have assignments and stuff, responsibilities? I mean I just picture paramedics hanging around the nurses' station chatting until something happens. (And I TOTALLY mean no offense, but we did clinicals at a really slow hospital, and the EMS guys would bring in a pt, then just hang around and talk it up for hours.?

I am just curious as to what you would do in a hospital, as an employee? I thought EMS was just a "mobile" job.

Muchas gracias

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First, EMS means emergency medical services. A Paramedic plays an integral role within the animal of EMS. Much of what a paramedic does will be based on their state SOP and facility policy/procedures. Some places employ paramedics as glorified assistants, while other places employ paramedics in a much more involved role where they have a wider SOP.

It is not that hard to think about a paramedic working within the facility. Most paramedics have around a couple hundred hours of in hospital clinical experience from paramedic school. Granted, their role as a student differs significantly from that of an RN. Typically, paramedics use their hospital time to complete procedures and patient assessments. (This is where they perform supervised OR intubations) Typically, the PM student will have ER, OR, and possibly ICU and OB experience. In addition to the hospital rotation, PM students complete a couple hundred hours of precepted ALS ambulance experience.

Clearly, the exact number of clinical experience varies significantly from program to program.

Also remember there is a significant difference between an EMT and a paramedic regarding responsibilities, education , and SOP. Actually, there is a significant difference among the educational levels of paramedics nation wide.

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Default Re: Paramedics are taking our Nursing job!

How are the hospitals replacing RNs with Paramedics? Sorry, I did'nt understand your post.

It's mostly in the ED's; Instead of hiring RN's they're hiring EMT-P's. Saves the hospital a boat load on $$$. But we all know , and the research is well documented on this:The more RN's taking care of pts, the better the outcomes.

Which hospital is this at? I'm going to have to give the owner a call. :madface:

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i looked on the hawaii bon website, and the term "nurse" is legally protected in hawaii, too. it appears that in2b8u was breaking hawaii state law every time he referred to himself as a nurse.

section 457-7, (2)(d)

[color=#0000cc][pdf]

hawaii revised statutes chapter457-nursing 0408

file format: pdf/adobe acrobat

state shall have the right to use the title "registered nurse" and the ... other person shall assume the title "nurse" or in any manner imply that the ...

hawaii.gov/dcca/areas/pvl/main/hrs/hrs_pvl_457.pdf

"any person who holds a license to practice as a registered nurse in this state shall have the right to use the title "registered nurse" and the abbreviation "rn". no other person shall assume the title "nurse" or in any manner imply that the person is a nurse except as provided in sections 457-8 and 457.8.5 or use any other words, letters or signs or devices to indicate that the person using the name is a registered nurse."

hawaii.gov/dcca/areas/pvl/main/hrs/hrs_pvl_457.pdf

paramedics are educated professionals, and are an integral part of health-care all over the world. but- they are not nurses, and the op was wrong to refer to himself as a nurse.

years ago, i was thinking of becoming a paramedic, and i joined a paramedic/ems discussion board. i won a writing contest on the site, and received as my prize a hat with the star of life and the word "paramedic" on it. i never wore the hat because i was not a paramedic and would never try to make myself out to be something that i was not. i later worked with a paramedic who moonlighted as a tech at a dialysis unit where i had a travel contract. i gave the hat to him.

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Specializes in ICU.
Ryandfd, Cruffler, Enlighten me!

So how does one, as an EMS or a paramedic, work in a hospital? I guess my only experience with them is when we have an emergency and we need transport from the dialysis clinic to the hospital. Or our non-mobile patients come in from the NH or something. That's all I know! What can a paramedic do that EMS can't? What do y'all do when you "work in the hospital?" You have assignments and stuff, responsibilities? I mean I just picture paramedics hanging around the nurses' station chatting until something happens. (And I TOTALLY mean no offense, but we did clinicals at a really slow hospital, and the EMS guys would bring in a pt, then just hang around and talk it up for hours.?

I am just curious as to what you would do in a hospital, as an employee? I thought EMS was just a "mobile" job.

Muchas gracias

My experience as an EMT-Basic & NREMT-P (paramedic) was all in the field, on a fire dept. I can't speak much as to what a medic is permitted to do in a hospital. I have seen medics in some local ERs here in the Dayton, OH area, and when I interviewed at an ER in mid-KY, they used paramedics to handle incoming triage (using a clearly defined protocol).

If your local EMS folks hung around the nurse's station, chatting for hours, they probably were not busy, and didn't have any pressure from their "brass" to get back in service as soon as possible.

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Specializes in Emergency Room.

Any of you paramedics know what High, Hot, & Hell of alot refers to? Yeah If you worked with me you'd get all the enemas. I'd even teach you how to administer a kayexalate retention enema, a contrast enema, and the proper mixture of a milk and molasses enema. Come to think of it, we do need more paramedics in the ER.

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Dangit, beat me to the South Park reference...pops into my head every time I see the thread title (as well as the zillion other md vs np vs pa vs rn vs emt vs ma vs cna vs pct vs vs vs...)

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Specializes in ICU.
Any of you paramedics know what High, Hot, & Hell of alot refers to? Yeah If you worked with me you'd get all the enemas. I'd even teach you how to administer a kayexalate retention enema, a contrast enema, and the proper mixture of a milk and molasses enema. Come to think of it, we do need more paramedics in the ER.

No thanks. Not quite sure how to respond to this post, other than to ask you to consider paramedics in the ER as a valued team member until their actions prove that they are something else. If your post indicates how you'd treat a team member, then I'm sorry.:nono:

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