Loss of a brother - page 2
I didn't really know quite where to post this, so I thought here would be good. My brother died on Valentines Day and I was hoping someone could give me some info on drug seeking patients. My brother... Read More
Feb 21, '03Occupation: CNA & RN Student Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 532So sorry for your loss....(((Mona)))
Feb 21, '03Occupation: Nurse Joined: Oct '01; Posts: 12,715; Likes: 2Mona, my heart goes out to you, very sorry for your loss.
Feb 21, '03Joined: Dec '02; Posts: 46hi mona,
I lost my uncle this valentines day ... it was very sudden, the family is still in shock.
I feel your pain and you are in my prayers
Feb 21, '03Joined: Mar '01; Posts: 2,730; Likes: 605(((((((mona b)))))))) Hugs to you at this very difficult time. I'm very sorry for your loss.
Feb 21, '03Joined: Nov '02; Posts: 181; Likes: 48mona, I sent you a PM. did you get it??? hope it helps.
Feb 21, '03Occupation: Nurse Practitioner Specialty: 20 year(s) of experience in Pain Mgmt, ICU nursing, L/D Nursing ; From: NC ; Joined: Dec '02; Posts: 478; Likes: 9((((((((((((mona)))))))))))))) I am so very sorry for your loss. I see many drug seeking patients and it breaks my heart. We use dilaudid very sparingly and only for those that need stronger pain medications and/or allergic to morphine.
My condolences and prayers are with you. Always know you have friends here.
Feb 21, '03Occupation: LPN Joined: Sep '01; Posts: 227; Likes: 5mona, my heart goes out to you and your family. thought i haven't had a family member die, a good friend of mine passed away last year from overdose of prescription pain pills. i understand your anger as i see so many doctors prescribing strong narcotics for pain. also, as a chronic pain patient myself, i also see those doctors who are unwilling to prescribe pain meds to those in need. it is a fine line and it can't be easy on the doctor involved to decide if this patient is indeed in such severe pain that it warrents narcotics etc....i believe that many doctors do want to treat these patients but are afraid to because of the high incidence of abuse. i know that many times patients will go from doctor to doctor in order to get enough pills to "help them"?? right now, another friend of mine is doctor shopping and has about 4 doctors that she is getting scripts from. your loss reminds me again of how easy it is to have a loved one die because of this. what are we to do? already tried talking to this person but she is in total denial. claims that she needs them for her severe pain. i am not doubting the pain but do have a hard time understanding how she can get so many narcs and then still claim that she still hurts and/or she is going to go through withdrawel because she doesn't have enough? plus the fact that she is unwilling to try diff. meds as she claims only percocet and oxycontin help. refused any of the patches available, same with morphine pump. what i'm leading to is what can we do for these people? do we call their doctors or pharmacies(often use diff ones)? is this and invasion of privacy? it's a sad situation. again, my condolances go out to you. i pray that in time as the grief process continues, your anger will lighten.
take care of yourself and if you ever want to talk, don't hesitate to email me or im, ok? sincerely, jude
Feb 21, '03Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 60,756; Likes: 17,916I'm so sorry you lost your brother. I can understand how you feel the medical establishment let him down and want to put some blame there. Perhaps that's justified.
Drug seekers are master manipulators of the system, doctors and nurses. When a patient reports pain, it is our responsibility as health care professionals to treat the pain.
He could have sued the medical establishment for NOT treating his pain. It's just a difficult situation all around. Addiction is a tough thing. The MD's probably put him on dilaudid because he claimed horrible pain and that nothing else worked. Who are we to say that he didn't have neuropathic pain? That's a very tough one to diagnose and is based on the patients reports of pain priamrily. If he said he had pain, he had pain.
My sincere condolences to you and to nursetobe-babe who lost her Uncle.
Feb 21, '03Occupation: stay-at-home mom/student Joined: Nov '02; Posts: 108Mona,
I am really sorry for the lose of your brother. I lost my brother to Cystic Fibrosis about 4 1/2 years ago at the age of 27. I know what you are going through and will go through for a long time. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family..
Lynda in VA
Feb 21, '03Occupation: hospice rn Joined: Feb '03; Posts: 13; Likes: 1mona b.,
I am so sorry for your loss, and for the helplessness you have had to endure watching your brother become more ill. My prayers to you and your family.
I was taught to believe my patients. When someone says they have pain, I believe it without question. But, sadly, some fail to go the extra step to understand the nature of a person's pain. Rarely is pain 100% physical, nor 100% psychological, but some combination of both, and needs to be treated as such. I don't think emotionally chemically dependant people use drugs for fun--they're treating pain, just maybe not the kind of pain that Dilaudid was meant to fix. I've been duped by a drug seeker. When I found out, I was angry with that person for being the reason it's so hard for me to get narcotics to legitimately terminally ill people at home. Through prayer, reflection, and education, I've come to understand that the woman who duped me was ill--she just didn't have the illness I thought she had. Further, she's likely to die from it, and she's suffering. For people with pain syndromes, both physical and psychosomatic, there are interventions that can be effective. There are programs that require people with chronic, nonmalignant pain to contract that they will not doctor shop, will not "loose" their meds, etc., and programs that require people to see a therapist--beneficial for both sufferers of chronic physical pain (who have a high prevalence for depression, anxiety, and suicide), and people with emotional pain and concurrent narcotic addiction. There's not a finite test to determine if anyone's pain is purely physical, and until there is, we have to believe the patient who says he is suffering, but we need to be mindful that we are treating pain holistically.
Doctors, once sued for being too free with perscibing and contributing to addition, now face litigation for failing to treat pain, and so the pendulum has swung. I forsee a time when pain will be treated comprehensively, when, in order to get narcotics, a person will have to partisipate in a pain program of some kind. What will the HMOs think of that?
Feb 21, '03Occupation: Visiting Nurse From: CA ; Joined: Dec '02; Posts: 25; Likes: 2I too wish to extend my sympathies... From your message I get the feeling that you feel somewhat responsible for what happened to your brother. If you take away only one thing from what I say please let it be the understanding that it was the choices that your brother made which led him to his death and had nothing to do with what you did or did not do. I work at a methadone clinic and am exposed daily to drug addicts. It has become clear to me that the love of their friends and family cannot save them. Redemption comes from within. It often takes them years to accept the reality that they are addicted, especially if they hide behind the mask of chronic pain. I am certain that you did all you could for your brother when he was here. You did not fail him, he was ill and most importantly he could not see that fact. There is nothing you could have done or said to change his reality. My heart truly goes out to you. I am aware of the hurt and guilt you must be feeling. You are obviously a very sensitive and special person and I am sure that your brother knew you as such. You have lived though so much heartache already please do not let this consume your life. It is sometimes difficult to express oneself in a forum such as this but I hope you understand where I am coming from. I have much respect for your strength and character. My prayers will be with you.
PS There is really nothing you need to know regarding drug seekers other than they are good at what they do. Even the most careful of doctors have been fooled at some point in time. Drug seekers are professionals, their life revolves around maintaining their habit. They will do and say whatever it takes to get their hands on narcotics. Some will even go to the extent of risky and unecessary surgeries. Do not be too angry with your brothers doctors, just because they have a MD beside their name does not make them infalliable.Last edit by Peatness on Feb 23, '03
Feb 21, '03Occupation: ADON-LTC Specialty: 19 year(s) of experience in LTC, ER, ICU, ; Joined: Feb '01; Posts: 5,856; Likes: 36mona, i am sorry to hear of your brother's passing.
Feb 21, '03Occupation: RN Joined: Jun '02; Posts: 415; Likes: 1Mona, So sorry to read about your loss. It's very difficult to lose someone who means so much to you. I lost my sister a couple of years ago to CA and it still bothers me. I don't think a person ever gets over such a loss, but I believe she is in a speacial place surrounded by other family who passed before her. Who does one blame for your loss? I have to agree that the pain issue is complicated. I know of Dr.'s who give narcs out like its candy without a second thought. But than again we are to believe if a pt. states they are in pain. I feel doctors need to look more closely at who they are prescribing to and how often. Hope things become easier for you as time goes on.