Is it legal? What's your opinion?? - page 3
I was recently surfing the net and came across the following web page -- As I read the bios of the office staff I couldn't help but notice that they referred to medical assistants as nurses. ... Read More
Nov 18, '01I too went to the website and it's kind of hard to read. Something is wrong with it, the bio's are overlapping one another or something. But I get the idea. That Doctor is probably trying to save money and not hire actual nurses, which compromises patients greatly.
I hope something is done about that.
Nov 18, '01Hi. Well, here we go. The issue of the AMA or some its members trying to solely define nursing is the reason why I've been a fervent backer of more standardization and elevation as far as nursing education is concerned. Where will it end?! You know, there are laypeople out there that could easily define themselves as nurses too. Heck, these laypeople toil day in and day out with their loved ones in difficult predicaments using the knowledge and skills that the CNAs and nurses have instructed them or they've learned on their own. Where will it end?! Once nursing gets its internal house in order, then hopefully we can see to it that some of the madness practiced by some of our doctors it stopped.
Ryan, if I read you correctly you pointed out that in a lawsuit that the doctor and MA was taken to court, not the doctor, nurse, and MA? Doesn't that prove once and for all that doctors are not nurses' supervisors? Doctors are teamleaders which is not the same as supervisors and nurses are a part of the team.
Nov 18, '01Used a different computer and verified correction were made. Let's see how this all plays out....
Nov 18, '01MiJourney -
I can't recall right now, but I don't believe there was a nurse in that practice. I'll get the info tomorrow at work when I have access to CINAHL. I also found the whole court record on the web about a year ago...I'll try to find it again. I'll provide the links tomorrow.
Nov 18, '01Okay, here's something that just made me drop my chin on the floor. Last time I took my dog to the vet, the vet. assistant was wearing a nametag stating "Veterinary Nurse". I told her she couldn't use the term "Nurse" like that as it was protected under the Nurse Practice Act, and she said that it was what she did and what her title was. When I called the Board of Nursing, I found out that "Nurse" is NOT a protected title here in Minnesota! We will have to work on that and I'm going to have to start a campaign to change that here. And I thought we were so progressive here!
Nov 18, '01Title Protection for Registered Nurses -- Examples from State Nurse Practice Acts
There was legislation in PA to permit veternary nurse(?sp) last year. We shot it down due to concerns re persons shorting title to nurse and mistaken impression these persons are RN's.Last edit by NRSKarenRN on Nov 18, '01
Nov 18, '01If you read the bios, the one actual nurse they have doesn't even work in a nursing capacity all the time. It says she's part time nurse, part time telephone triage, and part time administrator.
So let's sum up the practice:
1 "part time" nurse
4 medical assistants (including the telephone information girl)
2 office managers
HeatherLast edit by OBNURSEHEATHER on Nov 18, '01
Nov 18, '01I too received the reply from the pediatric MD. It we had not intervened, who knows how long that (website mislabeling) would have went on? This issue comes up time & again (UAPs being called nurses). I am pleased to know other nurses are as offended by this practice as I am!
We had an incident at work earlier in the year where a UAP was prominently labeled a "nurse" in a local newspaper advertisement. All the RNs & LVNs were justifiably upset about this, and when we complained to administration, they did not understand why we were "so upset." They thought we were being "overly sensitive" and that the ad was meant to thank all health care workers on our team (why did they label the UAP a nurse, then? Why not just thank the healthcare team?) There was a long debate that went on in the local newspaper editorial column after that. I still feel angry when I think back on it. It's very plain to me... either you are a nurse or you are not. Anything else is fallacious misrepresentation.Last edit by Genista on Nov 18, '01
Nov 19, '01The replies are Generic for sure,he probably has his maintenance man; oops; computer programmer sitting at the computer clicking ENTER.
So being my husband is computer literate and he loves our site, he reccommended sending an email to the WEB DESIGNER as all clients have to sign the Term of Agreement (TOA) which consists of terms concerning; misrepresentations,falsifing,or misleading.
Subj: Verification of Disclaimer
Date: 11/19/2001 2:04:50 PM Eastern Standard Time
Sir and/or Madam,
Wouldn't it be in your best interest to Verify the Information to be included in any site(s) that you Design? Would it not? I would also review my TOA pertaining to misleading or false claims made.
As with PCP; one of your clients, whom misrepresented too the public at large that their Certified Nursing Assistants are Nurses is unethical and illegal.
We, the Nurses of allnurses have brought about the changes too the site but, are duly concerned about the children and the information given too the parents by unlicensed personnel.
Please take notice that we contacted you as the Web Designer so safeguards could be revisited for your own good.
We appreciate your attention in this matter and Thank You for your time.
B. L. K. RN,
Reply: Subj: Returned mail: User unknown
Date: 11/19/2001 2:05:15 PM Eastern Standard Time
Sent from the Internet (Details)
The original message was received at Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:04:50 -0500 (EST)
----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to fullyrad.com.:
>>> RCPT To:<firstname.lastname@example.org>
<<< 550 5.7.1 <email@example.com>... Relaying denied
550 <firstname.lastname@example.org>... User unknown
Final-Recipient: RFC822; email@example.com
Remote-MTA: DNS; fullyrad.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 5.7.1 <firstname.lastname@example.org>... Relaying denied
Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:04:59 -0500 (EST)
Received: from Betts8753@aol.com
by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id i.b2.1eef9bc (4185)
for <email@example.com>; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:04:50 -0500 (EST)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:04:50 EST
Subject: Verification of Disclaimer
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_b2.1eef9bc.292ab1d2_boundary"
X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118
Nov 20, '01I was just thinking about all the emails this doc must have gotten and the poor boy probably doesn't know what hit him. He's probably thanking his lucky stars that he DOESN'T have more nurses at his office...tee hee!
Nov 20, '01I received this reply from the Utah Board of Nursing, following my email to them about this website. It seems to me that they are saying that the assistants serving as triage nurses is within the legal scope of practice. ?? The website WAS changed before they had a chance to view it.Subj:
Re: [DOPL Feedback] Misrepresentation as a nurse
Date: 11/20/01 11:35:48 AM Central Standard Time
From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Robert Downard)
CC: SDAVIS@br.state.ut.us (Steve Davis)
I am an investigative supervisor at the Utah Division of Occupational and Professional Licensing.
I read your complaint. I also visited the website. The only person listed as a nurse on the current website is Marilee Shiner, a licensed RN under interstate compact. The rest of the staff are listed as medical assistants.
This appears to take care of the licensing issue and as far as the practice issue, as long as Shiner is on board and supervising there does not appear to be any problem. This site appear to be no different than some of the "call a nurse" operations operating throughout the Wasatch Front to answer basic questions and make medical referrals.
Thank you for taking the time to send you concerns. We will monitor and take appropriate action as deemed necessary.
btw.. I, too, received the form letter from the doc.
Nov 20, '01Spoke with the Utah State Nurses Association Monday. They will periodically scheck the website. Before e-mailing the doctor i DOWNLOADED on paper the webite info and faxed that to Utah State Nursing Association.
Think I will e-mail this investigator to see if he wants copy of this info to keep the doctor on his toes.
Wonder what the DOC said to his associates Monday AM???
Per Utah SNA "Score one for nurses!"
Nov 21, '01Smart move, downloading that site, Karen! I kinda felt like that guy thought I was crazy because it had been corrected before he saw it..lol. Thanks to you, I don't seem quite so crazy, now.