Hey, Managers! What's up with the "weeding out" of good nurses?

[UM Review RN]

Recently there's been a spate of write-ups I've heard about that are basically bogus. Minor infractions that no one else would get written up over. I'm furious.

On the surface, it doesn't seem to be a big deal. But anyone who's been in health care can tell you--our nursing culture teaches us that bogus write-ups are a warning to get outta Dodge; it's useless to fight; easier to just change units.

So these nurses have all left for greener pastures.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the nurses were targeted because they earned more than new grads. Because coincidentally, there are a few new grads on each of these units, and the basic "numbers" of the nurses has not changed. In years.

So 'fess up, Managers, what's the deal? Is this what really is happening out there? Is your budget such that it looks better for you to keep the new grads rather than the experienced nurses? Do you use bogus writeups to "encourage" certain nurses to leave?

Or is something else afoot here?

[nursemike, ASN, RN]

I have never been asked to do such a thing with my units. However, we did some housecleaning a few years back of nurses who had been on the same unit so long they thought they owned it and all the equipment in it. They covered all sorts of bad deeds for one another and caused low morale. One by one they were eliminated on policy infractions, but not on trumped up causes. We limit our new grads to areas in need that have seasoned nurses present to support the unit. Salaries do not compare to huge insurance settlements over things that could have been avoided.

I have a relative with many years' experience who used to complain about "them" trying to force out the older nurses because they get paid more, and also that new grads were making nearly as much as she was, since base starting pay goes up every time there's a raise.

Eventually, she got so disgusted she quit on short notice. She was told she wouldn't be eligible for rehire. She said there was no way she would ever come back, anyway.

Few weeks pass, and her next job wasn't exactly a picnic, either, so when the VP for nursing called to ask why an experienced nurse would leave like that, she told her. When the VP offered to meet with her and her director, she decided she had nothing to lose by hearing them out. In the end, she was reinstated with all her seniority.

She still grumbles, of course, but not about being "pushed out."

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

the marriages were falling apart, and the nurses were working the overtime so they could afford to leave. they brought their kids into the hospital to sleep while they worked nights because it was safer than leaving them home with dad who might be falling asleep with a cigarette in his hand or out drinking half the night or abusive or . . . .

in the instances i'm referring to, the above was not true. i had to laugh at the dad falling asleep with a cig in his hand or drinking half the night . ... . nothing could be further from the truth for the husbands of these women.

there is a generational difference - women coming of age in the 60's and 70's were taught that work was more important than family.

i never bought into that (i'm of that generation) and stayed home with my older kids. and i work part-time now - because as marla mentioned i love being around my son and i have a daughter still in high school who needs her mom around.

in my 9 years of nursing (granted, this is not a long time) i've not seen any weeding out of older nurses - i'm sure it must happen but not around here.

we need nurses - we would love to have some older nurses or younger nurses apply.

steph

[RN34TX]

I understand where you're coming from, but we place such great emphasis on nursing history, and this phenomenom is such a huge part of (unspoken) nursing culture, that I submit that new grads do need to be aware that it goes on. They need to have tools to deal with it, if or when it happens to them.

And maybe they also need to realize that if they get into a management position, maybe they also need to understand that just because this has been a part of the workplace culture, does not mean that it must always be. Maybe this little dysfunction of the profession can change with leaders who are aware, active, and involved.

One could hope.

Point taken and agreed.

I guess when I was referring to things that don't need to be discussed within an earshot of students or new grads, I was thinking more of scenarios like a preceptor trying to orient a new grad while his/her coworker walks up and starts telling stories about someone who got fired yesterday for this that or the other reason.

When I'm precepting, I try to cut those conversations short with my colleagues for a more appropriate time and not in front of the new person.

I agree that they need the tools to deal with that sort of thing when/if the time happens to them, but I also feel that it can cause unneccessary stress when one is trying to get the hang of a new specialty and/or new to nursing altogether and that they really don't need to hear our dirty laundry and get paranoid of getting fired on top of learning to read monitors, vents, meds, drips,etc. But yes, they do need a realistic picture at the same time.

I guess I was drawing a parallel to conversations at work and these threads being read by people new to nursing/students.

Although it may be taken that way by a student or newbie, the discussions aren't intended to either scare nor encourage them and their decision to enter nursing. They are mere discussions about what goes on with us at work and they should keep that in mind when reading.

[RN34TX]

i'll share with you one thing that i've noticed -- when you see someone suddenly start spending a lot more time at work, it's usually because the homelife is already in the dumpster and work is either a safer or more pleasant place to be.

oh i think we've all seen that.

unfortunately, occasionally the horizontal violence can sometimes stem from that.

my home life sucks so i'm going to work a ton of overtime and see how miserable i can make my entire unit by finding as many mistakes to tattle-tale on as i possibly can.

i have no control at home so i'll try to exert as much control and authority at work as i possibly can to try to make up for it.

it's particularly unpleasant when it's your boss who has a bad home life and takes it out on you as they work around the clock.

[mydesygn]

Oh I think we've all seen that.

Unfortunately, occasionally the horizontal violence can sometimes stem from that.

My home life sucks so I'm going to work a ton of overtime and see how miserable I can make my entire unit by finding as many mistakes to tattle-tale on as I possibly can.

I have no control at home so I'll try to exert as much control and authority at work as I possibly can to try to make up for it.

It's particularly unpleasant when it's your boss who has a bad home life and takes it out on you as they work around the clock.

I do wonder how much of the wholescale "tattling" and "eating the young" are form nurses who need control at work because they don't have a balance in their personal lives. I do find the worst offenders are usually the ones who do enormous amounts of overtime or seem to willing to volunteer for charge or commitees etc.. but that's another thread.

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

There is a generational difference - women coming of age in the 60's and 70's were taught that work was more important than family.

I never bought into that (I'm of that generation) and stayed home with my older kids.

I came from that generation also, and interestingly most of my close friends and I were not ever taught that work was more important than family. And, yes, I am a Feminist with a capital F.

What we did learn from experience, that our mothers who stayed home with the kids, were faithful to home and husband and did not get much work experence, often got dumped later, because they were not as "interesting" or "wellrounded" as the other woman. They then were left without insurance, had no work record, little retirement...left high and dry for all their years of taking care of hubbie and family. Or their spouse died or became gravely ill, and they were quite helpless to care for their family. And these cases happened in the "good old days" when women were "protected" by men and supposedly by law.

We learned that we needed to have the knowledge and ability to care for ourselves and children, if the unthinkable happened. That responsible mothers and women must be able to care for herself and her family.

Please do not generalize the experience of a generation of women. We all come from diverse backgrounds. My child (by choice not by birth) is more important than my job. But I would not have been able to give her the care that she deserves without an income in the household. It took sacrifices on both our parts, but she grew up to be wonderful w/ a spouse and children and a carreer as police officer.

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

Hey guys/gals,

What's up w/ scaring off those of us who really want to be nurses? I know there's crap wherever you work (I've experienced that, but managed to come thru ok), but d***, is it really that bad? :(Should I be considering a career change to something other than nursing (I'm currently a m.a. who's looking to go back to school)? :uhoh21:

Love, you are a 38 year m.a.

Would you prefer someone lie to you say that something is a bed of roses? Or would you prefer coming in with your eyes open?

I for one want to know what I am getting into. Even if it is not pretty at times.

There were loads of BAs, and MAs that were in my prenursing classes. All I heard about was how much money NPs and CRNAs make, and nursing is '"so" easy, and I have my Masters, my CNA license, etc so this will be a snap. Some got into the nursing program. Some then dropped out because nursing was not what the thought it was. Some graduated by would not take Boards as they no longer wanted to be a nurse. And many stayed one or two years in nursing, and left.

This not to say that you should not be a nurse. It is to say you need to keep your mind open to all sides.

[mart18642]

Wao.......I did not think that this type of staff was happening until now. The hospital that I work for years did the same and got rid of a lots good experience nurses that way, some got fired........and one funny thing that they did was if you wanted to know if you position was going to be fill just look at the ad in the news paper and you will find that you were going to be replace that way. Ex. an employee who has been working in this particular hospital for approx. 25+ years, saw that his job was being advertized and the news paper ................then a couple weeks later they fired him because they were going to eliminate department.......what a blow......

Now they are back to square one whole bunch of new grads and agencies nurses.what a disaster.......now they are trying to hired experienced nurses by giving them more money..............is a no ending battle..........:uhoh21:

[twograce]

mmanagers get the idea they want to dictate what happens on "their" unit. They can't do that if they have "seasoned" staff, who will stand up against their bogus ideas of granduer. Whereas, new grads and travelers, are not as bold.

[erichnj]

Angie, I can completely relate and assure you this happens all the time in all types of organizations to all types of individuals, no matter what their position within the company.

I was at a Director level for 10 years, moved up the ranks thru hard work and dedication, had top performing teams reporting to me. Had the accolades from my superiors, industry and company recognition and great reviews throughout.

Then, WHAM!, top management changed. All of a sudden, I found myself in a precarious situation. I was no longer involved in key discussions, kept out of strategic meetings and no longer had access to allies within the company. Remember, it's your friends and allies that are your greatest assets during these trying times. Then, I started hearing rumours that my performance was being questioned behind closed doors. Soon after, my teams were broken up beacause of a "re-org", my managers were fired and I was left with a small group. All of these were done with underhanded tactics used by the new mgmt and their new cronies. Of course, not being one to take any of this lying down, I was "fighting" all of this with whatever orificenal I had left at my disposal. But, the more you fight, the more you are looked at as a non-team player and your descent is accelerated even faster. And, it is a a descent to drive you out.

In the end, I realized that I was wasting a lot of time, effort and energy on these battles and my work performance, indeed, started to suffer. Once that happened, I had to make a choice and that was to leave the company.

Looking back, it was the best decision I ever made. I was able to launch a very successful healthcare recruiting company. The lesson learned was that everything happens for a reason. Do the best you can do and learn from the experiences life places in front of you on a daily basis.

:monkeydance:

Eric

[IreneL]

my daughter's manager made her life so miserable that after 4 years she took a traveling job. then her nurse manager wouldn't give her a referance other than a beginning date and an ending date of employment. Thankfully she was able to back up her skills with education credentials and references from the Dr.'s she worked with. Needless to say the change-over in help there is high, even new nurses aren't staying very long. This is really sad and scares me as I am going to be an RN next May.

[baileyboo923]

Yes ... I know about the "weeding out" of the good nurses. I worked in the Peds ICU for 15 years and finally quit because of all the political BS that goes on. They weeded out the best manager I had ever had (one that could actually do my job and do patient care without freaking out!) they then hired a witch that has a Nurse Practitioner degree that has NEVER worked in a Peds ICU!!! I'm sure it was because she was "cheaper." She is wicked too!!!! I don't understand why she has a Nurse practitioner degree and works in thid position???

Nursing sure isn't what it use to be and I doubt if I will ever go back!!!

Kim:nurse: