Health Care: The Ticking Time Bomb - page 18

1. 
   Jul 29, '09

   I repied to someone who stated that health was an inherent human dignity.
   Originally Posted by ssing45

   Health an inherent human dignity? Why? Because it is a part of life? In that case, death is also an inherent human dignity as is illness. They are both part of life. Why am I keeping these people alive when, as a human being, I should be letting them die with dignity.

   
   

   Quote from lamazeteacher

   Who are you, to decide who has the "right" to die? Your last sentence gives me pause to doubt your opinion!

   I was exposing the fallacy of the original argument by drawing it out to it's logical conclusion. I never said I have a right to decide who has a right to die. See how I said, "In that case"? That is a clue to the fact that this is not my conception or belief but an extension of the original posters statement. Do you understand?
2. 
   Jul 29, '09

   Quote from K98

   My son was born with a serious birth defect which was covered in full (he is now a healthy adult). There are a number of idiots in congress that are proposing yet another tax, this one on MY benefits paid for with my hard work. As for the new grad that thinks that nursing/life is all unicorns, rainbows, and puppy dogs, your education has just begun sister (brother). Best of luck to you .

   First off, I'm glad your son is now a healthy adult. I really am. But say it was someone else who didn't have the luxury of having the same insurance as you. They should have to watch their child grow up without the chance to be a healthy adult? And what if your son were born now, with the same birth defect? Do you think the same medical care would still be covered in full? I'm not so sure after the recent years that insurance companies have been allowed to have their way, increasing premiums and basically charging whatever they want.
   
   All I'm saying is to make a valid attempt at affordable health care for everyone realizes the philosophical principle of doing the greatest good for the greatest number of people. With as much money that is spent on healthcare in the US each year it's absurd to think that everyone cannot have affordable coverage. And I know a lot of people are scared about the cost, especially upfront. But over time money will be saved, especially over the current course we have now. Think of it in these terms, it's like buying a KIA versus buying a Toyota. The KIA is cheaper upfront, but the extra investment made in the Toyota makes it a much better buy in the long term.
   
   And thanks for the wishes of luck, although I hope they all aren't so pessimistic.
3. 
   Jul 29, '09

   VOLUNTEER!!!!! Actions speak louder than words.
4. 
   Jul 29, '09

   Quote from K98

   Free? As in nobody pays for it? Please elaborate, I'm all ears (so to speak).

   I pay plenty in taxes every year. I'd be happy to see more of it go to seeing that everyone's covered. Less war, less outer space ventures - let private industry have those. For-profit healthcare doesn't really excite me at all. Puts profits ahead of patients. I don't have a problem with public healthcare. It has to be watched and monitored and held accountable, just like anything else. Potential problems exist in anything. None of the arguments against this are to me very convincing. Rationing of healthcare? Private insurance companies already do that by various means. "Socialized medicine"? So what. People get together to form credit unions, co-op grocery markets, a lot of the rural area that I originally came from didn't have electricity until the 1950's when government-aided electric co-ops got power to them - not enough users per mile of line for private utility companies to consider rural areas. Yeah, I suppose that if this were going on today, it would be labelled "socialism". We all know who pays for all this, and I for one am willing to see some of it go to help everyone.
5. 
   Jul 30, '09

   I may not be the most informed person on these forums but reading through some of the posts makes me sick to my stomach.
   
   I can't believe how many people are SHOUTING about how they would never participate in it before its even been put into place. Why do you think your soo high and mighty above everyone else in this country? I mean I make a great living and my family means more to me than anything else in this world, but the guy walking down the road who iv'e never met has a life too and I respect the fact that he needs healthcare just like me. I feel like EVERYONE deserves healthcare, and if for some reason I had to wait behind another person who needed the same test its just something I'd live with.
   
   I say this because I understand im just 1 person in a country of many, and just because I have a high paying job doesn't mean im special.
   
   Those saying "Im never going to wait in line, because Iv'e never had to and never will" really need to re-evaluate your im better than you attitudes.
6. 
   Jul 30, '09

   I support healthcare reform, just not this bill in its present form. We would be throwing good money after bad (by expanding an already broken system - Medicaid). A better model for healthcare reform is to expand the VA System, as someone has already suggested. The VA prototype has a much more successful track record.
   
   I am very concerned about the 1000+ pages in the present bill. Does anyone really know what is in the bill? Might some obscure line on page 847 (as just an example) come back later to bite us?
   
   I just sent this e-mail to my senators and congressman:
   
   

   Dear ____
   
   Please do not vote for this healthcare reform bill in its present dangerous form. I am a registered nurse and am very concerned about this behemoth legislation (1000+ pages). Does anyone really know what it contains? Have you taken the time to read every page and every line?
   
   What this healthcare "reform" actually does is throw money into an already broken system (Medicaid). By expanding Medicaid even more, the middle class taxpayers will be plundered even more and states will go bankrupt.
   
   The Medicaid system has been what has broken states' budgets across America, and now you want to expand it even more??? Can North Carolina afford any more increases to Medicaid coverage???
   
   I am an nurse educator within the NC University System and our budget is being slashed 15% because of the recession. Our state cannot afford any more expansion to Medicaid. Our educational system and our children/ citizens are hurting.
   
   Please do NOT vote for this bill! We need healthcare reform, but this is not the solution!!!!
   
   Thank you,
   
7. 
   Jul 30, '09

   As a Canadian I read with great interest your posts re universal public health care insurance.
   
   I see that many are scared of it. All I can say is that at 62, I have had all the top notch health care I ever needed including cancer care and a timely hip replacement, and never once had to think about payment. Being Canadian means you never have to worry about catastrophic health expenses. You walk out of the hospital or dr's office and never get so much as a slip of paper about it.
   
   I can't imagine ever living under a patchwork and uncertain insurance system like that in the USA.
   
   And as for that Canadian woman who appears in the ad bleating about how bad our system is, she was PAID to do that. And b/c of confidentiality, there is no way of knowing how urgent her problem was or if indeed it even existed. Did she NEED to go to the US and pay for care? Who knows.
   
   Where I work, our patients get great care repeatedly, no $ ever discussed.
8. 
   Jul 30, '09

   Quote from JoPACURN

   .
   
   "Why do people equate government sponsored insurance with limited access and choice? There isn't any evidence for this at all - it is a fear tactic being perpetuated by those who do not have all the facts."
   
   Wrong. Tell me which docs are willing to "jump" through government hoops (and I mean the ones that are seriously good and seriously busy practices--who TURN AWAY patients). I know those docs are already saying, "I don't have to participate, therefore I won't." THOSE are MY docs. I don't want someone who is going to see me as "#7370303000403020030403--you can go in now." I DON'T THINK SO.
   
   I will not--and I mean WILL NOT--be on anyone's waiting list.
   
   My fave ortho surgeon has his PICK of patients--he's that damn good and I know two IM docs who don't take ANY insurance. AT ALL.
   
   They have minimal overhead and explain to their patients that they are responsible for paying out of pocket. These two docs make house calls too.
   
   Yes, I admit I live in a region where this exists.
   
   But I tell you again, I am NOT going to wait because I've never had to and I'm not starting now.

   I learned long ago to never say never. I am sure many of newly unemployed upper middle class would agree. No one knows what the future holds. No one.
9. 
   Jul 30, '09

   i don't pretend to know the answers, but . . . it ain't rocket science to recognize a few contributing factors to the chaos:
   
   once upon a time in the land of plenty, a kindly uncle let the doctor-children build their own house & make their own rules. and all the kids with stethoscope toys were gleeful, because they knew that, if you get to make the rules, you usually win the games.
   
   so a big, fancy medical tree-house was built by all the doctor-kids, and they formed the very first tree-house club. they cleverly ma lots of tricky, sneaky parts to it that could hurt you (in case some outsider tried to climb up the tree)
   
   the kids weren't thinking at all about sagas like, lord of the flies - or that nature designs hierarchies because they perform the ultimate function, which is to control its destiny at all costs. that includes beating the hell out of anything that doesn't feed the hierarchy-machine. by carving out their niche in the tree, the new club members could throw apples at any fool trying to challenge upper echelon. it was totally cool.
   
   it wasn't long before the boys in the tree-house were kings of the world, and because they had all the apples, they were pretty-well fed - fed to the point of gluttony. hundreds of thousands of unnecessary surgeries; trampling all over the nurses who tended the garden below; they rained down pesticide to kill off the nuisances of midwifery, acupuncture, chelation, vitamins, alternative care, and may other clubs that had gathered in their own smaller trees, thinking they were important. they vowed to crush any threat to the kings (and the rare queen) of their tree-house.
   
   billions of dollars were gathered up, and the tree-house became a castle in the sky - wealth beyond measure for those few who ruled the roost. the source of those billions? the minions who needed apples to survive, and the deepest of deep-pockets indeed, big, tall, gangly rip van winkle, the sleeping, generous "uncle insurance," napping just under the tree.
   
   but one day the tall, gangly uncle woke up. and when he did, he grew very, very angry when he realized somebody had ransacked his pockets and taken his watch and wallet. he had trusted the kids in the tree to only take a few dollars for a tree-house. how - pray tell - could they have gotten so greedy during his nap? so he demanded an explanation:
   
   $37 billion a year wasted, on some strange thing called "medical errors." what did that mean?
   
   $19,400 gone, from each surgical foreign body left inside people. huh?
   
   1,142 doctors behind bars. (doctor-kids in prison? in america?)
   
   195,000 innocent patients dying who shouldn't?
   
   doctors performing fake surgeries on the mentally impaired?
   
   private insurance companies bilked by false coding to the tune of billions? what?
   
   medicare insurance pillaged by more than 450 doctor-kids nationwide?
   
   3,500 hospitals investigated?
   
   doctors having sex with their patients & billing insurance for the "treatments?" are you kidding me?
   
   doctor-kids hiding the bad doctor-kids so the grownups can't spank them?
   
   physicians sued 100 times still allowed membership in the tree-house?
   
   hospitals allowing a surgeon-kid with a lawsuit history to surgically implant a screwdriver into a poor patient's cervical spine?
   
   doctor-kids defending another doctor-kid who murdered his wife & buried her in a basement?
   
   doctor-kids allowed to slap, grope, molest, insult, badger & murder nurse-kids?
   
   a new york doctor-kid blowing up a building to spite his wife?
   
   well, needless to say, uncle insurance got very, very angry. he got a big stick and he kicked & screamed & broke furniture & smashed all the windows in the tree-house. all the doctor-kids started jumping out of the tree and running around. some were ashamed, but others were defiant. they said they had a right to do whatever they wanted. they did write the rules, you know.
   
   but gee, look at all the apples falling out of the tree. and now the lawn's a big mess, and how are we ever going to clean it up?
   
   is there a moral to this story? well, maybe. my dad said, maybe the moral is, we shouldn't let kids build a tree-house without adult supervision. somebody could get hurt.
   
   and i said to my dad, even i know it's not too smart to steal money from a sleeping giant.
   
   
   
10. 
    Jul 30, '09

    Quote from K98

    My insurance is not a luxury. I work. I pay for it. My decision, not the government. Maybe others should do the same. BTW, my wife and I have had Blue Cross/Blue Shield since we were married. We wouldn't have children if we had no way to cover them. Our children are our responsibility, not yours.

    I tried to get Blue Cross/Blue Shield. I was turned down. Pre-existing conditions. You know. I tried 25 years ago when I was younger and I tried 5 years ago when I was older. Nothing has changed. I have both rejection letters too.
    
    Fuzzy
11. 
    Jul 30, '09

    Moderator's friendly reminder: Please stop sparring and keep to the subject at hand. Please avoid personal insults and debate the issues. Thank you.
12. 
    Jul 30, '09

    Closed for Admin review.

    Last edit by NRSKarenRN on Aug 1, '09
13. 
    Jul 31, '09

    All off topic posts have been deleted and thread is now reopened. Please debate the topic at hand and avoid personal attacks. If you feel a poster has attacked you, do not respond, but use the triangular report feature instead. Thank you

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