Health Care: The Ticking Time Bomb - page 16

Our health care system hurts everyone. Premiums are expensive and increasing every year. Doing nothing today will cost taxpayers 2-3 times more in the next few years. Currently, the "public... Read More

  1. by   SoundofMusic
    I am SO against it.

    No one even DISCUSSES tort reform. Unitl we stop frivilous lawsuits, our costs and the cost for docs and hospitals to do business will continue to rise. Democrats are on the side of tort lawyers, so I feel the system as it is is totally corrupt, but no one wants to address THAT.

    We also don't discuss the use of our system by those entering this country illegally. They and the rules and system in place that obligates us to take care of them is truly what is breaking our hospitals and costing taxpayers millions right now. I for one am NOT going to pay higher taxes so these people can come here and receive free healthcare, although it is happening now as we speak.

    Another issue is that primary care doesn't pay. Docs go into specialities which drives up costs.

    We have to get COSTS under control first -- and I have no idea why anyone would want the government to take over the system. Government is so huge, so bureaucratic, so inept. Medicare and SS are broke -- why are we going to hand over our healthcare to them? I dont' get it.

    Fix it, restructure it -- but don't allow the government to take it over. It will be a disaster of epic proportions -- and will ultimately and necessarily lead to rationing, which is evil.
  2. by   lamazeteacher
    "I need to see the final version before I decide. I have a real problem with the way the whole issue is being handled at this moment. We are getting a whole lot of opinions from three or four different sources but very little in the way of hard facts. Why is the president trying to rush this thing through so fast? Is there something that he doesn't want us looking at too closely?" Quote from post#191 , by Belgarian

    Have you read the current one? It is available on the internet, at http:www.DHHS.gov, and go to "recovery, about 3 items down.

    If you voted for President Obama, as the largest proportion of Americans did, you probably trusted that he would do the best he can in that job, and you believed in him (as I do). What is it that may have made you change your opinion? Do you trust the opinion of others who speak loudly against him, without mentioning specific reasons for their viewpoint?

    Are the politicians who speak against the Recovery, computer literate? If not, they can't envision the cost saving advantages of fewer centers handling billing and expenses, need to conserve equipment that is extremely costly, and doesn't have to be at every hospital or doctors' office. According to population surveys, that equipment can be distributed in a much more sost effective way.

    Do you know how rich people avoid paying taxes, and how much they actually gross? It's gross that they oppose paying such a small % of their net incomes above $350,000/year! That is up from the original $250,000.

    You'll see how long, with how many well trained medical providers, this plan took, to happen. Every day it fails to be implemented, it's costing taxpayers more, and causing seriously ill people to keep away from discovery and treatment of their illnesses, while insurance companies, doctors, and lab, X-ray and other hospitals make much more money than you'd believe!

    There will be no "pain", you won't have to do without one thing you have now, because there are built in sources of funding through higher taxes ONLY for those whose incomes are many times that of yours, who pay them after reaching a very high amount, at 1-5% (they'll never miss it, believe me). However, it's well known that those with such high incomes, want more, and more, and more, and guard what they have through (?) guilt. Your taxes are pennies, compared to their high figures, so it would be a waste of time and effort to tax the average person more!


    Some ideas (not Obama's) include you paying taxes on what your employer pays for your health care coverage, considering that to be income. The longer this wrangling takes place, the more, possibly less favorable to middle income earners; and health care consumers will be masticated, and the more health care dollars are being wasted!
    Form your own opinions, and when you hear others, ask yourself what the speaker or you have to lose/gain from their opinion. That will help you see whether or not you agree. For example, a hospital administrator, insurance agent, politician whose seat depends on wealthy contributors, and doctors making 7 figure incomes will not want changes made that will limit their incomes.

    Patients struggling for a toehold in this financial atmosphere are more likely to agree with Obama's plans. People who believe that wasting money isn't optimal, and saving health care dollars is beneficial to all, will agree with the health care recovery plans! They can always be amended - but let's get a hold of rocketing amounts of money being lost to those who are making more and more money from health care.

    Personally, I can't believe that there's something hidden, as the media and politicians' demands for "transparency" won't allow that. There is now a research group checking every statistic any government worker quotes! It's not an official agency, as it's made up of media participants, so you have to consider the source. Politicians will obviously not want to lose their "golden" providers for campaign costs, so they're very much in the pockets of their greatest contributors. Find out who those people are! Campaign contributors have to be listed, along with how much they contributed for all campaign money, so look up your representatives name, go to their campaign costs, and you'll see..........
    Last edit by lamazeteacher on Jul 26, '09 : Reason: input name of poster and post#, addition
  3. by   lamazeteacher
    Quote from ssing45
    Health an inherent human dignity? Why? Because it is a part of life? In that case, death is also an inherent human dignity as is illness. They are both part of life. Why am I keeping these people alive when, as a human being, I should be letting them die with dignity.
    Who are you, to decide who has the "right" to die? Your last sentence gives me pause to doubt your opinion!
  4. by   NVRNCCM
    You know . . . no one should ever have to die because they can't afford health care. This is so wrong on so many levels. I see this every day in my nursing practice. Day after day I receive referrals from hospital case managers for patient re-admissions. What I see is people being discharged from the hospital who can't afford medications, diagnostic tests or physician office visits and have no clue how to navigate the ins and outs of the health care system. And the bean counters wonder why they keep cycling back through the hospital! "What! You didn't fill your Plavix prescription? Well, now we have to cut off your leg." Maybe no one bothered to tell the patient that this drug is not on their insurance plan's formulary, or if it is, that it requires prior authorization. By the time this is figured out the patient is already back in the hospital. More cost! Or maybe the prescribing physician or hospital case manager was not aware of this either and could have taken care of that prior to discharge. For people who are uninsured, the out-of-pocket cost of Plavix is in the hundreds. I even have patients' who are receiving a full Medicare Part D Prescription Subsidy who still cannot afford the reduced prescription co-pays. What is wrong with this picture! It seems to me, a lot of hospital re-admissions could be avoided/prevented if health care professionals actually had the time to practice due diligence. But that's a whole other topic. We (myself and the other case managers in my office) do the best we can, but we are limited by the exclusions and limitations of the health plan we work for and by the lack of effective social programs administered by the federal, state and county governments and other community resources. Unfortunately, these social programs have been the first victims of budget cuts and are no longer able to provide even minimal assistance. I certainly hope that people are not dying out there, and I wonder what makes that OK for some people because it's not OK with me. We have to be willing to change what is not working instead of all this arguing and bickering. I've heard that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Let's set aside our differences and work towards doing something different.
  5. by   lamazeteacher
    "Let's set aside our differences and work towards doing something different."
    quote from NVRNCCM'S POST # 198

    I believe that nothing would be acceptable to those politicians who have taken campaign contributions from pharmaceutical companies, hospital conglomerates, and other wealthy entities that own stock in those industries that would make less profits, have to cut administrative staff's bonuses (like AIG refused to do), and wealthy folks who don't want any more tax on money they'll never be able to spend in a lifetime living to 110 years of age!!

    Another reason for the headlock in which some members of congress have this revised health care plan, is that war has been declared by factions that have nothing to do with healthcare. It's a colossal power struggle, racial prejudice inspired, "you can't make me change" type of situation.

    The plan has been the result of many years of work volunteered by doctors, health care workers, and some politicians and their staffs. There may be something as good, that could be wrapped in different colored paper, but it, too would be stymied due to the selfishness of the Americans who refuse to become acquainted with the plan, which is available for anyone to see, at http:www.DHHS.gov, about the third or fourth on the list there, then go to revision.

    if I see another post declaring that someone doesn't want THEIR tax dollars spent for others' healthcare, I'll puke. It doesn't matter to them, that many people are dying daily for lack of early diagnosis of their illnesses, inability to afford to see a doctor, and inability to buy prescriptions. There's no place that's easy to find, for them to get on medicaid or other programs; and doctors and their staff won't get the information they need, to give it to patients for whose care far less is paid, than insurance companies pay.

    It's ugly, stinking MONEY that causes these deaths, and more tax money to be spent on medical care obtained because less expensive treatment wasn't possible, due to late diagnosis! The diabetic process discovered early can result in only dietary changes for treatment, and good education for those patients. But most are so whipped by the difficulties they've encountered on the way to being diagnosed, there's little possibility of them getting early care in a timely manner, as you've described so well, NVRNCCM.

    It will take many people so much more time to turn this thing around, so please, write, write, write your government representatives. Call any newspaper, and they'll tell you who they are, and how to contact them. Then get a list (available to the public) of their campaign contributors, and send them stories about yourself or patients who you know who are dying because of the lack of health care. Ask them to tell the representative for whose election they paid, to VOTE NOW, FOR THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR LIFE AND WELLNESS, THAT THE REVISED HEALTH CARE PLAN WILL BRING. Then get all your friends and relatives to do the same. Drop hints about what you're doing, to your patients who can do the same.

    There are over 3,000 nurses, nursing students and others reading these threads right now, who can get the job done that I described above, if only they set aside their negativity about what others could get for less than they might pay (if you make over $350,000/year). Loosen your grip on the automatic thoughts that someone might take advantage of you and what you'd like for yourself. This claim that you'd have to give something up when a healthcare plan that preserves and sanctifies life and health for all Americans is passed, is ridiculous; and it is designed to make it seem undesirable.

    Let's go to work, and get these changes passed, everyone!!!!

    How President Obama can smile and see the changes delayed, I don't know. He and many volunteers like me are determined to see them go through as soon as possible
  6. by   jdub3
    Quote from sayitgirl
    The President and Judicial system have excellant healthcare. I can remember when insurance was free for employees and a small fee for families. That has changed for most of us, now it is based on salary. I do not want to have my rates doubled again. If nothing is done that will happen, it is slowly happening now. Our country is the only one without national health insurance.
    Thats b/c we are not a Socialist country.
  7. by   misplaced1
    How sad. Perhaps we should also make the police force a pay-for service entity. They could be reimbursed on a case by case basis when they respond. Then if the reimbursement gets too low for them to run with enough staff to respond appropriately, then I guess it will just be too bad if your family member gets raped or murdered. And why should I care, I mean I don't want MY money going into anything to help somebody I don't know.

    Hey and lets add the fire department to that too. We could have a pay as you go system for that one. Kinda like you pay for your health insurance now. Then if your old and sick and just don't have the money laying around to pay your premium for your fire insurance, we could all just stand around and watch your house burn down.

    I can't believe this is a website composed of nurse. In my personal opinion it is appalling to hear a bunch of nurses complain about making health care affordable to all. I had a great job. I got very sick. COBRA is only good for eighteen months and after that NO MORE HEALTH INSURANCE. That is if you can afford to pay for COBRA while you DON"T have a job. Good luck with that one.

    If you have a spouse with health insurance that will help you during a time like this good for you. But unless you are a multimillionaire good luck with paying the copayments too. Most medical bankruptcies are declared by people THAT HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE. If you get a serious illness that goes on for years, get out your wallet and and watch your money burn. It goes faster then if you lit a match to it even WITH HEALTH INSURANCE.

    Believe it or not. Just pray that it doesn't happen to you. And believe it or not it can. It can happen to anyone. I suspect one of the reasons so many people get up in arms about this is because it is hard for them to accept this fact. As long as one can point a finger and say that will never happen to me because I work hard and have health insurance, then they feel safe. But, you are NOT safe. Not unless you are independently wealthy and have a great deal of money in the bank.

    By the way I was YOUNG, well EMPLOYEED with lots of savings when it happened. And if you think the government just starts picking up the check because you can no longer afford to pay it you are wrong. You can loose every asset you have before that happens.

    Health care is not going to be perfect. To think that it will not be rationed at all is magical thinking. It is already rationed based on your income and access. Read about Sam Waltons fight with cancer. It is no surprise that people with his type cancer go to the place where he was treated to get treatment themselves. Not that others can't go. But not everyone can afford multiple bone marrow transplants and insurance typically does not pay for the THREE that a person I know has had.

    But we need to have basic care for everyone. A safety net that will prevent them from going into banckruptcy because they were unfortunate enough to loose their job when they become ill and susequently their health insurance.

    So to all you hard workers out there that pay your health insurance premiums on time, you've just been lucky so far. Instead of looking down on people with no insurance perhaps you should be counting your blessings!
  8. by   shortlittleRN
    Quote from DAH2
    I vote for single payer health Insurance--why should insurance corporations make great profits on our health care ?
    It needs to be non profit. We spend twice as much per individual as other developed countries and get less and have so many people uninsured. We're paying ,in our premium's, for the uninsured and we,re paying for duplicate admin. cost for each and every insurance company AND we're paying for profits, for every bonus and all perks enjoyed by insurance executives. Health care should be available to every U.S. citizen and should never, never be for profit. I don't know why we've let it go on this long. Our elected representatives need to take the ins companies out of their pockets.
    I concur. Sadly, I don't think this option will surface any time soon in US. Insurance and pharmaceutical lobbyists will not let this happen. We need to eliminate the lobbyists first. Without them, maybe our government will be more apt to act for the citizens they were voted to represent. Meanwhile, our government is nothing more than a bunch of paid and bought prostitutes of special interest groups.
  9. by   jbluehorseh
    There still seems to be a lot of talk about public paid health care, we all end paying for it one way or another. The cost has always been put on the shoulders of those who could pay, but this can not last. We are pay more and getting less every year and the insurance companies now dictate what they will pay for and what they will not. We also have to look at more preventive care as most other countries do. We in the US focus on treatment and not preventive care which lowers cost over all. We spend way too much money keep people alive by any means necessary, when it does in prove their quality of life and it only extends their life a little while longer. I watch a women die in the hospital where I work over a 4 month period. She was never going to get better do to her medical condition. She actually got worse. We spend more money keep people alive in their last few months of life then we do in their entire life. This is where we need health care reform.
  10. by   K98
    Quote from misplaced1
    How sad. Perhaps we should also make the police force a pay-for service entity. They could be reimbursed on a case by case basis when they respond. Then if the reimbursement gets too low for them to run with enough staff to respond appropriately, then I guess it will just be too bad if your family member gets raped or murdered. And why should I care, I mean I don't want MY money going into anything to help somebody I don't know.

    Hey and lets add the fire department to that too. We could have a pay as you go system for that one. Kinda like you pay for your health insurance now. Then if your old and sick and just don't have the money laying around to pay your premium for your fire insurance, we could all just stand around and watch your house burn down.

    I can't believe this is a website composed of nurse. In my personal opinion it is appalling to hear a bunch of nurses complain about making health care affordable to all. I had a great job. I got very sick. COBRA is only good for eighteen months and after that NO MORE HEALTH INSURANCE. That is if you can afford to pay for COBRA while you DON"T have a job. Good luck with that one.

    If you have a spouse with health insurance that will help you during a time like this good for you. But unless you are a multimillionaire good luck with paying the copayments too. Most medical bankruptcies are declared by people THAT HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE. If you get a serious illness that goes on for years, get out your wallet and and watch your money burn. It goes faster then if you lit a match to it even WITH HEALTH INSURANCE.

    Believe it or not. Just pray that it doesn't happen to you. And believe it or not it can. It can happen to anyone. I suspect one of the reasons so many people get up in arms about this is because it is hard for them to accept this fact. As long as one can point a finger and say that will never happen to me because I work hard and have health insurance, then they feel safe. But, you are NOT safe. Not unless you are independently wealthy and have a great deal of money in the bank.

    By the way I was YOUNG, well EMPLOYEED with lots of savings when it happened. And if you think the government just starts picking up the check because you can no longer afford to pay it you are wrong. You can loose every asset you have before that happens.

    Health care is not going to be perfect. To think that it will not be rationed at all is magical thinking. It is already rationed based on your income and access. Read about Sam Waltons fight with cancer. It is no surprise that people with his type cancer go to the place where he was treated to get treatment themselves. Not that others can't go. But not everyone can afford multiple bone marrow transplants and insurance typically does not pay for the THREE that a person I know has had.

    But we need to have basic care for everyone. A safety net that will prevent them from going into banckruptcy because they were unfortunate enough to loose their job when they become ill and susequently their health insurance.

    So to all you hard workers out there that pay your health insurance premiums on time, you've just been lucky so far. Instead of looking down on people with no insurance perhaps you should be counting your blessings!
    Oddly enough, RN does not equal "liberal". The government already takes way too much of the paltry salary I earn for doing this job. I am quite tired of watching my pay shrivel to provide benefits to others. I can't read a newspaper or watch the TV news without some politician popping up with some proposal for a new "revenue stream" (sounds better than tax). I am all for "reforming" health care, provided it doesn't cost me any more than I pay now, and it lets me keep my private insurance and keep the government out of my health care. So far, nobody has come up with a way to pay for this proposed mess, the CBO has reported that it increase costs rather than save money. As for the public resistance to this "plan", those pushing it seem to forget that the majority of us are insured and satisfied with our care.
  11. by   sayitgirl
    We are already being taxed for medicare, or did you not notice that deduction on your paycheck?
  12. by   K98
    Quote from sayitgirl
    We are already being taxed for medicare, or did you not notice that deduction on your paycheck?
    Yes, we are, and medicare is going bust. Did you notice that? Let's add an even larger program that we have no way of funding. Don't worry, we can play the "class envy" card, and tell everyone that we will tax the "rich" to pay for it. Heh. The full weight of funding this debacle will fall on you and I. It always has and it always will. President O says otherwise, but he is lying. Hope and change my foot. He is just a different door leading to the same room. It is amazing how many people are too thick to realize that.
  13. by   vivacious1healer
    Quote from elkpark
    And, pray tell, what special insight into "what the gov't is up to" do you have that the rest of us don't??? Is it perhaps because I'm not listening to Rush or watching Faux News that I'm so uninformed? I do make an effort to follow the news and stay informed through a variety of legitimate news sources, but maybe that's not good enough ...

    OMG! I was going to say the same thing!
    STOP repeating the talking points of Hannity and Limbaugh PLEASE!

close