Euthanasia/Spirituality - page 12
I am a member of this board, but rarely post. I have a few questions that I would like to ask. How many of you believe in Physician Assisted Suicide? I believe that a patient should have that right... Read More
Sep 13, '02Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 38,750; Likes: 16,271((((((((micro)))))))))))) how rough for you...you care so much and that is what makes you so wonderful. I refuse to comment much on this subject...I cannot better or expound on the posts I have seen and I see no use in adding my less than 0.2 in. It is an issue that is sure to get hotter and more pertinent as more of us live longer and longer...perhaps too long???? (quality or quantity, do we get to have both?.... not always the case....) weighty issue indeed.
Sep 13, '02Occupation: a just a nurse contemplating the nature of my career..... Joined: Oct '01; Posts: 2,344; Likes: 21smiling eyes.........you are caring also
i slept and doing all right......
it is part of what I/We do....
I was glad to be able to help,
but it does drain you a bit.....
Must replenish the well....
but that goes beyond nursing
and to the whole person.....
sorry, getting off topic.....
but it is a human issue.....
now back to the regularly scheduled topic
I hope this thread does continue as much good thoughts, opinions, and discussions........
take care everyone,
one day at a time,
Sep 13, '02Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 38,750; Likes: 16,271Glad to hear you are doing OK micro.......you seem to be able to keep it in proper perspective....i admire that. it is not so w/everyone, as we can see. take care and keep on doin what you do........people counting on you.....especially YOURSELF!
Sep 13, '02Occupation: Currently urgent care center Joined: Sep '02; Posts: 128; Likes: 18My values are highly influenced by my religious beliefs. A primary reason I chose nursing was the fact that I would be serving others and helping to carry their burdens as the Savior did for us.
I also believe that while God has given us our free agency, it is still up to Him when we are to return to His presence, though "enduring to the end" is extremely difficult, especially in the face of enduring severe effects of a terminal disease. I have witnessed this in close members of my own family.
Living wills/DNR orders ensure (supposed to anyway) that no heroic efforts or unnatural means are used to prolong life that will not sustain itself otherwise i.e. let nature take its course.
Some may think this is naivete but I believe it comes down to God's will and our willingness to accept it and understand that it will ultimately be for our own good. That doesn't mean we don't do our best to make that person comfortable to the best of our ability! On the contrary! But only God decides when we are to return to Him.
Sep 13, '02Joined: May '02; Posts: 399; Likes: 8Heaven--YES!!! And I'm going someday. I'm in no hurry but I am going someday. I do not believe in assisted suicide. When God is ready he will take us all out of here. I don't believe in allowing someone to suffer with agonizing pain however. I believe in being very free with pain medication for terminal patients. When my brother was dying from AIDS they wouldn't increase his Roxanol dose because they didn't want him to be addicted.
Sep 13, '02Occupation: Currently urgent care center Joined: Sep '02; Posts: 128; Likes: 18OH MOLLY MO!!
Your brother was DYING and they were worried about ADDICTION??? I say, at that point, let him be addicted, as long as he's NOT IN PAIN!!!
While I do not believe in PAS as I've said, I do believe in using our resources to keep those who are terminal/dying OUT OF PAIN if at all possible. If given a choice of giving MS04 to a dying pt who is A/O and in pain whose resps are at 10, you better believe I'll give the MSO4!!
I know the line is hazy between pain relief and snowing someone but in that circumstance, God will make up the difference if we're acting according to what's right.
PS I am so sorry for your loss!!
Sep 14, '02Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 12hi guys...well i know that i am really going to put some noses out of joint here and possibly offend some of you here when i say that whilst you may have strong religious views about euthanasia and it being a crime in god's eyes.... you deny me and many others like me the chance to die the way i want to. Please, I am not here to sway anyone any particular way - or upset you, but the difficulty with this is that whilst i respect your decision about your commitment and beliefs surrounding this issue...you are not doing the same for me. many of the issues that tiredernurse and mjlrn97 have raised are also precise reasons which activists like myself concern ourselvses with and use to strengthen our arguments about.
this is a subject i have researched well...and there is no one answer because of the fundamentally opposing beliefs. As an example of this ( which i know is completely off the euthanasia track here but nonetheless), let me pose a question to you here -I wonder how some of your readers feel about issues such as parents refusing blood transfusions to critically ill children because they are jehovah's witnesses???...even though it is necessary to save their life but because of their belief in 'god', they will not permit it. I have personal knowledge of this with a little girl who had been diagnosed with acute lymphoblastic leukaemia and in desperate need of a blood transfusion. Do you think because their decision is based on their ideal of god that you or i should agree with it??? (Receiving a transfusion in the Jehovah witness faith is on par with being ex-communicated from the catholic church.) I only use this example to illustrate that if you do not share the same ideology base then you will conflict.
It may surprise you to hear that - no I am not an atheist, I do believe in a God- a God of love who lives within us and who chose us as nurses to make this world a better place.
I do not espouse to a particular religion even though I was an Anglican - but I lost my faith in this church and their 'club' rules when they staunchly refused to baptise or even bless my stillborn nephew when he was delivered because he had already died in utero - and they don't baptise dead kids in case you didn't know- bloody fantastic religion was to us on that dreadful day. God and I had harsh words that day. But even if was an atheist, we still share the common belief that our patients should die with as much dignity as possible. In some ways we are like two dogs barking up the same tree - we are just doing it from different angles.
I don't expect you to agree, but please listen with an open mind.
Sep 14, '02Occupation: RN, MS home health Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 7,472; Likes: 49My 22 year old son is a witness and has been since he was about 14. I did not like it but my ex converted and my son went on board. He carries an ID in his wallet that specifies no blood or blood products. I don't know what he would do when it came right down to a life or death matter but I would respect his wishes even though it may hurt me deeply. I have watched others particulary, witness acute leuks die slowly on a vent...not making red cells. Hard to watch that too.
Sep 14, '02Occupation: ICU Charge Nurse Specialty: Critcal Care ; Joined: Jul '02; Posts: 329; Likes: 18i have a question. it is somewhat on the subject.....
do you have to be a dnr to be admitted to hospice?
i have a family member who is a hospice nurse who says that you do not have to be, but i always thought that was the whole point.
that hospice was where you had ecepted that you where going to die and did not want extreme measures taken. thanks in advance to anyone that replys,
Sep 14, '02Occupation: RN, MS home health Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 7,472; Likes: 49No you do not at the one hubby works at but some agencies do require it.
Sep 15, '02Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 12thanks renerian - i only wanted to use this purely as an example of the wide variety of people's interpretation of what god is to some people. muslim vs witness vs roman catholic vs seventhday adventist etc etc. I just tend to get annoyed by those who profess to believe in god ...and then break with their faith e.g. catholics using birth control/abortion etc, governments sending individuals off to war to kill or be killed- but then won't even let them make their own end-of-life decisions, people euthanasing their pets in the blink of an eye - to 'put them out of their misery' yet then reviling in horror that we would even consider offering the same option for their fellow human beings, priests abusing children and it getting hushed up by the church etc. there are lots more examples i can come up with but will stop here. i don't have a blind belief that everything is up to god - and in god's good time etc. think of how many lives that have been saved because of human intervention that would otherwise have been lost - is god annoyed that we humans intervened. i have had a child by ivf that i could simply not have had 'naturally' - if it were left up to 'god' as some would believe- i would never have become a parent. Will god punish me and everyone that has helped me achieve this???. I don't think god put us on this earth to just sit on our hands and accept things to be as they are. Don't we have the responsibility -given to us by god to make this a better place. I'm really going to get some mail now I can see!. I just want to strive for everyone to have a dignified death as possible - even if that means that it comes sooner rather than later - but I want you to make this decision. Did you know that the no. 1 reason people ask for euthanasia is not pain - in fact pain came around 7th on a list- but it was weakness and loss of independence i.e. it is the psychological factors that impact hardest. If the laws changed and you couldn't be prosecuted for euthanasia - would you change your attitude towards it- i wonder how much the fear of litigation impacts upon our practice- like as has been mentioned with doctor's not prescribing sufficient pain relief orders - or nurses not delivering sufficient pain relief on fears that they will hasten a patients death. What do you think.....remember this is purely my own opinion
Sep 15, '02Occupation: Currently urgent care center Joined: Sep '02; Posts: 128; Likes: 18Ruthless
You are very eloquent in expressing your views and though I may not agree with them all, I certainly understand your perspective. And, honestly, if I didn't have the beliefs I do, I would agree with you 100%
We all experience life from a different perspective and background and it would be impossible for me to write in a single reply box a perfect reason to be for/against euthanasia that would satisfy all beliefs.
There are many things I would like to say but I know they would be greatly misinterpreted and though I am willing to back up what I believe, I realize others have their own experiences and beliefs and I certainly try to keep an open mind and would never presume to argue with different perspectives.
If it were up to me, I would see to it that nobody suffered needlessly, that everyone would die the dignified death they desired and deserved. My 36 y.o. uncle, diagnosed with a brain tumor at 29, went in to a five-year remission, then began a two year deterioration to the point of chronic seizures, left-sided paralysis, severe depression, and total dependence, the final blows being have to endure a divorce his wife wanted when she learned he could live another twenty years, and the death of his handicapped 13 y.o. daughter, having already lost three infants several years before. How I wish he could have avoided all that!
I can only say that I believe in a God that understands what we are suffering and that everything we endure here is for a good reason that we may not understand until after this life is over. I understand not every one believes in this idea and I do not mean to cause offense. Free agency comes in many forms and I would not tell anyone what choices to make!
Sep 16, '02Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 12waggy,
i am truly sorry to hear about the terrible ordeal your uncle has had to go through. life can be just so unfair sometimes - and it seems that some individuals for no apparent reason seem to cop more of the bad stuff than others (who really deserve it).
i agree exactly with what you are saying - there is no one answer - and as you mention - free agency brings free ideas. i guess the difficulty that we face is how to encompass all these views so that each of us has our rights and beliefs respected. this no doubt is a difficult -if not impossible job so perhaps the best we can do - is just the best we can do.
i hope that your uncle finds his peace and i wish him and all those around him all the best,