Euthanasia/Spirituality

[BBelle]

I am a member of this board, but rarely post. I have a few questions that I would like to ask.

How many of you believe in Physician Assisted Suicide? I believe that a patient should have that right if there prognosis is terminal and there is no hope of recovery.

Secondly, how many of you believe in the Other Side? You know, if a patient says that they see a bright light with there loved ones waiting for them. And if you do believe, do you talk about it with your terminal patients if they ask you about it.

I firmly believe in the Other Side, I believe that when we pass away it is just our body that is gone, our spirit moves on to the Other Side, where we are happy and care free. Belle

[ohbet]

Teshiee,if you believe that "it is your right to die how ever you wish" but your not to keen on assisted suicide,and is active euthanasia continues to be erroneouslly misconcieved as "murder" in this country and continues Not to be a legal,moral and spiritual right in this country then millions of people will continue to suffer needlessly,have their dignity taken from them and not be able to die as they wish.

[BBelle]

Hi Renerian. Patients who experience the "watching everything that is going on when they are coding" is out of body experience.

And I firmly believe that it does happen. Scientists, and some doctors do not believe in it. They believe that it is all in the patients mind. BS!

I am a very spiritual person and I firmly believe in OBE, astral travel, visits form the other side, etc.

It is sad for those who do not believe in these things, because if a patient experiences any of them, like the one you talked about, and they tell their doctor or other health care professional they get told "oh you were just dreaming, or it was because of the meds you were given." And even some of the Chaplins don't believe. I'm sure that these days most of them do, but there are still a few left that think it is the work of the devil.

[BBelle]

Hi ohbet. There are many more physician's these days that will honor a patients wishes thank God, but way back when some of them didn't even tell there patient(s) that they were going to die.

A couple of months ago I was watching a movie on The True Stories channel and that was what the movie was about. The nurse didn't think it was right not telling the patient that they were going to die. She would sometimes tell them anyway and because of that she lost her job with the hospital she worked at.

About a year later she started a hospice in her community. I don't remeber if she was the one who founded Hospice, or if she just started one in her community. Any how it was a good movie.

Talk to ya later.

[renerian, BSN, RN]

Bbelle I do believe in out of body experience......I had one once. when I almost died..........drug reaction.........I told my friend what she said and she said I was blue and not talking but I was in my mind.........and I told her what she said to me........she was shocked........

renerian

[BBelle]

That is cool, the out of body experience that is, not that you almost died.

Have you ever seen or heard of Sylvia Browne or John Edward?

I think that is really cool. I would love to get a reading with John Edward, but don't have the time or money right now. Someday.

[donmurray]

Can I suggest that you save your money for something worthwhile, rather than go to see this admittedly skilful showman.

Check out http://www.skeptic.com for details on how he does it, and which stage magicians he has borrowed techniques from.

"When you can fake sincerity, you've got it made!"

[renerian, BSN, RN]

donmurray

I have a friend going to a show I guess with John Edwards. I had never heard of him until she told me who he was.

[Vsummer1]

Originally posted by BBelle

Patients who experience the "watching everything that is going on when they are coding" is out of body experience.

And I firmly believe that it does happen. Scientists, and some doctors do not believe in it. They believe that it is all in the patients mind.

The reason they do is because there was a study done on people who reported the "leaving their body, floating above" phenomenon. What was done to prove / disprove this was a word was written in big bold letters on a piece of paper taped to the top of a machine which would be in plain view for someone looking down from above. Whenever a patient reported this phenomenon occurring in this room, they were asked to report on what they saw in this particular spot. Not one of these people could report seeing this. Therefore, it was concluded that is was in the mind of the person allowing them to project, not actual projection. Think of it like this: when we hear something strange in the night, we lay there and project our mind down the hall to get a feel for where that sound came from. We don't "leave our bodies" but rather project our minds. This is just another mystery of what our minds can really do. After all, these people only report "seeing" what was going on around them, not what was going on in a place their physical bodies had not been, such as above that machine looking down.

[rncountry]

ohbet you miss my point. I simply believe that the majority of the time people are afraid at the end and fear what is coming at the end because they fear the pain. We have the means to deliver appropriate pain control, but often do not use it. Fear of a patient's addition, fear of "assisting" them to the other side with too much pain med. Docs fear of getting a smack for prescribing too much pain med. I believe it is that issue that needs to be focused on. I also believe that too many times we save people who should have been allowed to go to God to begin with, but with our high tech and the keen will to use it no matter what, oftentimes that decisison to save someone turns out to be a nightmare for the patient and the family.

Let me explain something, 3 years ago my husband's 15 year old daughter died. She had been born with multiple birth defects, and lived much longer than anyone believed she would. She had terrible scholiosis in her back, and ultimately her left hip actually rested on her rib cage. This pressure eventually caused resp. failure as well as heart failure. The last month of her life I took care of her, her own mother felt she could not handle it. Since I have never lost a child of my own, thank God, who was I to judge that? I simply did what needed to be done. Until Sam got ill at the last she had been a sunny little girl, while she never was able to talk she could express herself in nonverbal ways. She loved to have mine and David's son sit on her lap or play in bed with her. He was 3 when she died. The last week she began grimacing and guarding, and I asked the primary doc for liquid morphine. It helped until her bowels no longer were functioning enough to be able to get the med into her. At that point we switched to Sub Q morphine, she was very thin. The last day of her life, I gave her morphine whenever she appeared painful, at the very end to make sure she was not thrashing and gasping for air like she had done prior to me getting out to the house, I was giving low doses about every 30 minutes. She quieted, and began breathing slower, but easier. She never woke up again. When she died I was holding her in my arms. She appeared very peaceful without pain or struggle. I can say easily this was the hardest and most emotionally wretching time I have had in my nursing career. But I know that I was able to keep Sam pain free and she died peacefully. Did I help her slip over the edge? I don't know, and I don't care. I only cared that she had appropriate pain control. If that control helped her go to the other side peacefully than so be it. If anything prior to this I blamed myself for not seeing her symptoms earlier and insisting that she get morphine earlier. However she lived with her mother and we did not see her daily. But I felt a deep guilt for that for a long time. But I would never feel it was appropriate to actively participate in euthanasia. I believe it is murder. If someone really wants to commit suicide, for that is what it truly is, then that is something they can information on from the hemlock society. I don't think that is wrong, it is not even wrong if the family wants to assist if that is their loved one's wish and they feel comfortable with it. However I don't think it should involve the healthcare community. Easing death, which morphine can do quite well is a different thing than actively killing someone. Yes, I do equate it with murder with Dr. Kevorkian as the poster boy. It simply goes against the grain of my ethics and morals.I know others who feel differently, some of them are my friends. But my opinion is otherwise. It is possible to give people a pain free as well as fear free death, and to not use it is what is wrong. Take the fear of being in horrid pain at the end away and then people would likely not be so afraid of that they would opt to kill themselves.

I tell you my story because I want you to understand I have gone through this on a very personal level. I could never have forgiven myself if I had let Sam suffer the pain she was experiencing, but on the other hand I could never have forgiven myself had I knowingly given her a lethal dose of morphine. I know, I know, she couldn't make that decision for herself, but neither can many others make an informed decision when appropriate choices are never offered as choices.

And PS for BBelle, the nurse in that movie is the one who started hospice.

[renerian, BSN, RN]

RNcountry....my hubby is a hospice executive director and an RN and hospice is a caring, loving, compassionate service. My family used hospice for my grandmother and father.

[rncountry]

When my mother in law was dying of lung cancer, we used hospice. She was in Florida or I would have taken care of her too. Her care was wonderful, a great comfort for the daughters in Florida and for the family here who could not go and stay in Florida. The hospice nurse was wonderful about calling and letting the children here know that she felt death was imminent so they could get to Florida. She died 30 minutes after the last child got there. I believe she was waiting for him.

I just think that too many times neither physicians or nurses offer hospice as an option early enough. And in my rural area the availability is sometimes limited. Hospice was offered for Sam, but I felt that by taking care of her I could also give something to my husband, as well as Samantha. I could give him a peace of mind that strangers may not have been able to give. And I was able to offer hands on loving care that her mother simply could not do. I think her emotional pain for herself and for her daughter made her withdraw into her own world at the time. I did have trouble understanding it myself for a time, but then who am I to judge? I never had a child that was ill from the get go or had to deal with that everyday for 15 years. And I never had to watch my own flesh and blood child die. God willing I never will.

My aunt was a hospice nurse for a number of years, 10 I believe. It is a wonderful organization, just not utilitized as much as it could be I think. I am glad to see more focus on pain control in the general healthcare field too. I hope as time goes on it will be focused on even more.

[BBelle]

Val, although scientists say they have proven this I don't believe them. I firmly believe that when patients say they were out of there bodies, they were having an OBE. I am a spiritual person and have had, what some would say, unexplainable experiences. I have had these experiences so therefor I believe.

I think that people who have had such experiences are more apt to believe than those who haven't.

That's just my opinion though.