EEK! There's a woman in my room! - page 2
Since the "man in my room" thread got closed, I thought I would try a different track. I want to focus on something a little different. :idea: We know the emotional responses we got to the idea... Read More
Nov 27, '07I am absolutely amazed that anyone would teach to give a painful stimulus to stop an erection. I can't imagine why any reasonable human beling would follow that advice even if someone did teach it to them. Truly sounds absurd to me.
I am a female nurse. I respect male and female privacy exactly the same with regard to draping, pulling curtains, etc.
If I happen to have a male or female available to perform a cath (our techs perform them), I will give patients the option. However, I will not unduly go out of my way for this because we are all very busy and I think you should accept good care from either sex--at least that's how I feel as a patient. If I'm in the hospital or at the doctor's office, I'm there for professional medical help and I don't care if it's a man, woman or ogre as long as they know what they're doing and take good care of me. This is true for gyn care as well.
58Flyer--a question for you--I'm not trying to be argumentative but I don't understand why a digital rectal exam on a male by a female physician is cruel, as you stated. Many of us have had pelvic exams and rectal exams by male physicians and it just doesn't matter to me. At least for me, a doc is a doc as long as they are providing good care.
Just my 2 cents.
Nov 27, '07I never heard of such a thing before. How terrible that this happened to the OP when he was so young and impressionable........it's the sort of thing that can scar one for life.
The fact is, there are evil, horrible, sadistic people in every occupation, and nursing obviously has its share. That said, I would hope the OP will seek some sort of counseling to help him deal with this issue; it's affected his life for far too long already and deserves to be put to rest.
FWIW, 58flyer, the vast majority of female nurses don't give a second thought to the erections that sometimes occur during personal care. It's a natural reflex, and any nurse worthy of the name knows better than to take it personally and does her best to put her patient at ease.
And that's all I have to say about THAT.
Nov 27, '07Quote from 58flyeri have to disagree with this.The outcome of the bias is an imbalance where it is difficult for the female providers to effectively empathize with the male patients. That results the females taking an almost lackadaisical, casual, or blase' view of the modesty and privacy needs of male patients.
regardless of what gender i care for, i am always (always, always) hypervigilant on protecting the dignity of my pts.
if a nurse leaves a male pt exposed for a moment too long, i assure you, she will be just as insensitive towards her female pts.
we got an admit yesterday, whose admitting/primary nurse is a male.
last noc, i was his nurse.
he has end stage als, and needed assist w/toileting.
this poor man, almost died of embarrassment, when he needed me to place his penis in the urinal.
even though i've done this for years, and a million times, i was equally as horrified, for him.
i ended up scooting the urinal under his johnny, so he wouldn't be exposed...
and that was one time that i chose to act non-chalant, no big deal, type situation.
it's not that i felt that way, but felt i needed to take the focus off of his immediate needs.
no flyer, thank God there are nurses who will advocate and protect their pt's dignity, til their last dying breath...
no matter how many same gender pts they have.
and for the nurses who are a bit sloppier?
then pts should command this right for sensitive and considerate tx.
gotta go to work.
Nov 27, '07I was not taught that particular procedure in nursing school. I did have a teenage male patient once that did not want me to change his brief. I said ok, and went to get the male LPN. I knew he was probably embarrassed and I did not want to embarrass him further. It was no skin off of my nose. As for my older male patients, I have ones that will let me do all of their bath except their peri care. If they are able, I encourage them to do that themselves, or in the case of several, they tell the their wives will take care of that when they come in to visit. I just smile and tell them that when their wives are ready to do so, let me know and I'll bring more warm washcloths. As for the erection thing, when it happens, I don't give it a second thought. I have not had a male patient ask for a male caregiver.
Nov 27, '07Quote from 58flyer..This nurse decided she had the "cure" and proceeded to strike me in the scrotum.
cue frenzied taking of the lord's name in vain, and questioning of the moral consistency, sanity and lineage of the nurse in question.
One other thing. Given the overwhelming presence of women in nursing, male patients are often expected to just accept intimate care from women nurses without complaint. Often times there may be no other choice.
So the dilemma seemed to be that OP of the old thread hated reassigning people. Then some other users bravely came forth to relate things from their own pasts, things that only the truly soulless would argue against.
So, in fairness, we must acknowledge that physical and sexual abuse can go both ways, and if at all possible we should work to grant requests of that nature unconditionally. The alernatives, as best I can hash them out, are a) screening people's stories to see if they're "good enough" (e.g. sexual abuse versus "I just don't like women") or b) letting things sit status quo, not getting worse but definitely not improving.
And as men, we do have to accept the fact that there aren't very many of us to spread around - and only slightly more if you count CNA's, PCT's, and other fun acronym types - but this thread's OP is a fine example of how you might just have to knuckle down and work harder to meet the pt's request because it's the right thing to do for the pt.
one more thing, if I may.
generally speaking, i don't think men are very modest.
otherwise, how could so many, pee outside?
or pee in a urinal, in a line, w/a bunch of other guys?
One word: beer :spin:
And I'm only half kidding. Whether or not they give you the impression of modesty, men *do* have the right to it. It's one thing to pee in a line - everybody's gotta pee, the choices are to stare straight ahead and let fly or hold it in until everyone else leaves, and I'd think it a fair statement regarding either sex to say we're pragmatists where the bladder is concerned. It's another to strip down and wait on the doc to come check your prostate.
Nov 27, '07Whether or not they give you the impression of modesty, men *do* have the right to it. It's one thing to pee in a line - everybody's gotta pee, the choices are to stare straight ahead and let fly or hold it in until everyone else leaves, and I'd think it a fair statement regarding either sex to say we're pragmatists where the bladder is concerned. It's another to strip down and wait on the doc to come check your prostate.
I had never heard of "flicking" before, but I have seen male residents inappropriately exposed. I apologized to one and he said the Navy had gotten him over his modesty a long time ago. So, not only was I bothered that the CNA had left him exposed while fetching a new top sheet, but it bothered me that he didn't care. I thought, "What's wrong with the Navy?"
When enlisting in the Army, I was treated with appropriate sensitivity. I had a very hard time providing a urine sample for the drug screen, though, with a female watching me. I don't think I could have done it at all with a male watching, and especially if I had been abused by a male. But I guess the bladder decides, eventually.
Some guys might not mind being exposed, but it is courteous for everyone to keep them covered, anyway. I'll try to do a better job of communicating that to the folks I supervise who perform personal care. I have never personally seen a female exposed the way I've seen males on my hall exposed, but maybe I need to be more vigilant for everyone involved.
Does anyone know what the flicking or thumping procedure was called? If it was taught somewhere, then it was written down somewhere. That "nursing intervention" has a name, and I'd like to help document its history.Last edit by abooker on Nov 27, '07 : Reason: removed youtube link r/t scatalogical humor
Nov 27, '07Quote from ShantasAfraid not, I was 16 years old at the time, my father had passed away the year before, so I had no male figure in my life, and how is a teenaged male supposed to tell his mom something like that? Heck, I blamed myself, I thought something was wrong with me. So that nurse got away with it, at least with me. I just hope she tried it with the wrong person who put a stop to it in a big way.I am sorry to hear what you went through. That was totally inappropriate and I would like to know if you have taken any kind of actions against that nurse who caused you to have both physical and emotional trauma??
Nov 27, '07Quote from earle58I think men are more modest than generally given credit for. As for peeing outside, I am REALLY careful where I take a wiz. My open air selection is usually more private than a restroom. It's just me and no one else, unless some squirrel is peeking. But most men's rooms have dividers between the urinals, and some strict social rules about wandering eyes.generally speaking, i don't think men are very modest.
otherwise, how could so many, pee outside?
or pee in a urinal, in a line, w/a bunch of other guys?
i'm just looking at the big picture.
maybe most men just don't care?
we (men/women) are very different creatures...
Nov 27, '07Quote from 58flyerIf you do that to some one 16 wont it be considered as child abuse??Afraid not, I was 16 years old at the time, my father had passed away the year before, so I had no male figure in my life, and how is a teenaged male supposed to tell his mom something like that? Heck, I blamed myself, I thought something was wrong with me. So that nurse got away with it, at least with me. I just hope she tried it with the wrong person who put a stop to it in a big way.
Its an awefull thing to do.
Nov 27, '07I had a nurse do that to me when I was younger, and I know 2 of my friends from school have too. I think it was taught to nurses in the "old days". Yeah, it hurts. Hurts your genitals, and your dignity. I don't think anyone would do it in this day and age. It would be a lawsuit now, as maybe it should be. . . if they were smacking women around like that you can bet there would be a lawsuit.
Nov 28, '07Could this attitude about thumping or flicking be related to attitudes about circumcision?
Here's what was being recommended by Dr. John Harvey Kellogg, of corn flakes fame:
The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases. The soreness which continues for several weeks interrupts the practice, and if it had not previously become too firmly fixed, it may be forgotten and not resumed.Last edit by abooker on Nov 28, '07 : Reason: clarity
Nov 28, '07Quote from cyberkatFor me it was 1973. A friend of mine who was wounded during Desert Storm had it happen to him in 1992. Another military veteran, wounded in Iraq, told me he was threatened with it in 2004 in a stateside hospital.As for the OP, I've never heard of this, and have never been taught such a thing. It's despicable. How long ago was this? If a man has an erection during basic care, I don't make any sort of deal out of it. I, and every nurse I know, understands this is as mainly just a reflex and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with arousal.
I do agree, that when I'm taking care of a male patient that I encourage him to do as much cleaning of himself as possible. But I do the same for females as well. It's a matter of offering as much privacy as possible. It's the same with exposing the patient only as much as necessary to get done what needs to be done, that includes giving an IM injection.
It's really hard to quantify this since it's not exactly the kind of thing guys just bring up in conversation. If it comes up at all it's usually incidental to some other subject.
Nov 28, '07As a female I have cared for males who have gotten an erection while being bathed, cathed, etc...as long as nothing was being said that was of a sexual nature by the patient then I totally ignored the erection (they were proably embarrassed as well) and kept on with what I was doing. I cannot imagine inflicting pain in the region. "First Do No Harm". I have had a few male patients who thought they were impressing me and/or were making sexual comments. I walked away telling them they were totally out of line and I'd send a male/someone else to finish the job.