CONTINUED IN WHAT IS THE MAJOR REASON Why are they all leaving?

tddowney · Nov 22, 2006

"When I was in the Army, the hardest thing I had to train new nurses to do was take care of themselves first so they would be ALIVE to take care of their patients. Sometimes tough love is the only way. Take care. Alan"

I come to nursing by way of fire and EMS, and the first lesson drummed into us was "you can't help anyone else if you go down."

The trick is knowing what is worth skipping lunch/break for.........

traveltrash · Nov 23, 2006

Yesterday I received my notice "Congratulations you have been accepted to the UPMC Shadyside School of Nursing". I don't think I was able to come down from my cloud until I went to this thread. I am ready to cry literally. I have tears welling up as I write this. You see, I have been an accountant for 9 hellish years. Well first I worked in payroll and then for the past 4 years I was a true accountant. I hated sitting at a computer all day working figures in my head. The part I did like was when I was working in payroll as a garnishment processor. I would try to help anyone that I could. I got ridiculed big time by my co-workers who said that I should be a social worker. I talked to God and asked Him to direct me to where I was meant to be. He said I was meant for nursing. When I researched nursing about a year ago, I used to go to this site and read so many posts on why nurses loved their jobs. So I was so excited to be joining a profession loved by so many. Then in September of this year, my mother was hospitalized. When I went to pick her up to go home, there was a nurse who came in to take out her IV. I forget what her title was but it wasn't RN however, she was an RN. I asked if she was an RN and she said yes, so I happily told her I was getting ready to go to nursing school and she said in the rudest voice "WHY???" She then said you couldn't pay her enough money to go to Med-Surg and that they were worked like dogs and were treated like that. It wasn't time to take out my mom's IV so about 4 hours later, another RN came to take out my mom's IV. This time it was a guy. I said the same thing to him as I said to the prior nurse. He said "Are you serious". I would think of doing something else if I were you.
I am truly sick and saddened and totally scared out of my mind. I have bought books to prepare me for nursing school. I am learning about drug calculations and abbreviations and everything to prepare me but I fear that I am walking into a major disaster. I know you guys are speaking from your hearts about your experiences but my Thanksgiving will not be good. I don't know what to do. I will be stuck working in a hospital because the Shadyside School of Nursing has a Tuition Forgiveness program in exchange for 2 yrs of service at UPMC. Can anyone provide any comfort?? Can you at least tell me what would be a good place to start in nursing?
Thanks and God bless you all for the stuff you had to put up with. I pray that you all are blessed with better work environments.

Look, there's good and bad no matter where you work. The thing is that most places you work you aren't holding a person's life in your hands -or basically holding your livlihood (your licensure) out for someone to take every time you walk thru the door into work. I'm a travel nurse, got out of the hospital staffing scene, for all of the reasons that have been stated - ethics, politics, ya-yaing, back-stabbing, 2-faced, - but I didn't get out of nursing. I would love to say "do the best you can, that's all that can be expected of you", but you know what - they (?& who is they- anybody's guess) may say it, but that's not what they're thinking. It's a scary profession - I wish I could tell you it will get better, but...I've been reprimanded for saying to a pt's family member who told me they were in nsg school, "Oh, I'm so sorry,you have my condolences" & when they asked me abt nsg I said I love my job but I hate (all of the above things I've mentioned). It's a great paying job, better in some areas than in others, but if you're going into with wide eyed wonder, just know the things being said are reality, worse in some hospitals or units than others Look, I worked on a P/P, Peds, M/S overflow unit on a 13 wk contract, we were all agency or travel nurses.We ran our a---- off, had codes, people falling out of beds, didn't have time to pee. Noone came to relieve us, no secretary @ nite, nothing, notta; But in spite of or really it was BECAUSE OF the chaos we had fun. we were zipping pass each other in the halls, calling out info to each other, & at one point it got to be so comical we started laughing so hard, that I was abt to wet my pants, so Mark ran to the bathroom, swung open the door as I ran in & because it was one of those hydrolic doors, didn't even get closed before I sat down - it was hilarious. They were horrible working conditions, but because of the staff I was with, it was great. You mentioned books, honey, all the booklearning you can get will never prepare you for what's abt to hit you in the face. Don't dispair - we're all complaining, but as you can see the majority of us are still hanging in there. We're all waiting for a solution, as someone said before if all the nurses across the nation would grow balls and stand-up & strike, we would get the attention we deserve. Afraid of losing your job? does anyone honestly think adm going to hire a hospital full of travelers or get out there & do the job we do, I don't think so - OK - that's a whole different thread. :smilecoffeecup:

traveltrash · Nov 23, 2006

I've seen several mention that they clocked out to chart - you know that's against the law - because if you're off the clock, you have not business with the charts, you have no legal standing - I'm not reprimanding, I'm just saying - there is a recourse. If you've been told abt the no OT thing, "you should have all your charting done on time", etc. all you have to say is either it's patient care or paper care, which do you want and mention the fact that you thought the state board of nursing and JACHO frown upon the working off the clock thing, but you'll be glad to clarify it with them. Uh, adm gets bristled @ the thought of being investigated. of course, they may try to threaten you, but then I would say if you have the feeling this is going to happen, then take it to the board & JCHO anyway with FACTS, FACTS, FACTS

Sheri257 · Nov 23, 2006

I think the problem comes when you are a staff nurse and are barely keeping your head above water, have your own heavy patient load, and are trying to stay organized....then you are expected to be a preceptor for a new grad. It does slow you down when you have to teach someone else how to be a nurse. This is a management induced problem, not the fault of the preceptor or the new grad.
A preceptor should have a lighter load in order to be there for the orientee, at least in the beginning. As the new grad gains more confidence and ability, then they can begin to take more and more responsibility and the preceptor can back off and let the new nurse take flight. Unfortunately, this is rarely the situation.
Just one incident..... in our very busy ER, I was asked to precept a new RN. Generally no problem, but we were slammed that night(nothing really new). I was trying to let him do what he could, (he is past the simply shadowing point) but it was slowing everything down terribly. At one point there were several patients that needed discharging and a very sick respiratory distress patient came in for another nurse. I just told my orientee to go stand in the corner and watch the emergency while I discharged the patients. It would have been OK except we have 5 new grads being oriented, and they were all there that night and the same situation was being played out across the ER.
None of the older nurses were mistreating or resenting the new grads....we are glad to have them, but administration makes huge mistakes in the way these things are handled.
So I think if anyone eats their young, it is not the staff, but the managment who put everyone into impossible if not dangerous situations.

Unfortunately, this is not always the case. I have gotten a taste of the "nurses eat their young" phenomenon and it's for real. But, luckily, I'm not that young and I can handle it.

I can certainly understand your point, especially in emergency situations. But I have learned first hand how mean nurses can be ... even when you're pretty functional as a soon to be new grad doing the vast majority of work for them.

I'm currently precepting for the final stretch of my program, and I've been taking most of the patient load. I've done a few stupid things but, by and large, this has been a vacation for my preceptor because I'm pretty functional.

In addition to clinicals I've externed quite a bit so ... I've been running my butt off all day, even skipping lunch while my preceptor sits around reading magazines, watching soaps on tv in the nurse's lounge and chatting with her friends.

Yet she never misses an opportunity to jump on my case, even when she has no justification for doing so. She's always on me like gravy on rice. So, I just work harder because it's not possible for me to switch preceptors this late in the game.

But it doesn't really make any difference to her how hard I work. This is her little fiefdom and she and her little clique of friends are a real piece of work. They get their jollies with this sort of thing.

I'll get through it ... been there, done that. But this "nurses eating their young" phenomenon is for real. Some of these women can be quite nasty .... even when you're doing most of the work for them and they have an easy day.

:typing

catjmoses RN · Nov 23, 2006

hi all, first post here.

i completely agree with you mariedoreen. i have been a nurse for 10 yrs now and the work load doesn't get better in med/surg. i'm a travel nurse and i just left a job i had because i just could not take it anymore! one would think that it would be easy enough to take a 10 min bathroom break but it's not! in an 8-10hr shift many nights i couldn't get away. bells going off, bed alarms ringing, orders to be taken off, meds, assessments, blood, admits, iv's, brp's, charting, and that's just the 'regular' stuff, not all the other stuff that happens-- c/p, abnormal vs, falls, resp distress to name a few ---it just doesn't end some nights! and no, they do not sleep all night! hospital nursing doesn't have a beginning or an end. --24 hrs baby--just like 7-11! and if you work where half the staff is sick of it already, forget it, you will constantly hear --"get used to it--it doesn't get any better".

i personally think that is a poor attitude --burned out or not. i love nursing, but i am tired of going home so tired i can't see straight, so hungry i'll eat the first thing that jumps out of the fridge and having to pee so bad that i'm on the verge or a uti! the only solution i see is to work days where they usually have enough staff, get breakfast, lunch and afternoon break!---not an option for me as i'm a true night owl, or specialize. ccu, pacu, mother/baby to name a few. i worked in ccu for a while a few years ago and i loved it. when we were busy it was a different kind of busy--not running the halls between 6-10 pt's busy but busy with 1-3 pt's. i'm definately working my way back there--it's that or i'm out! i'm too close to being burned. i keep telling my mother i'd rather be a walmart greeter some days!:chuckle

rpayneisu · Nov 23, 2006

Wow! This is an opinion to some earlier posts.

This is my first posting, so here goes.....

I'm a "male" nurse (hate that term). I've got ten years experience on a med-surg floor in KY, if anyone's interested. Yes, we're overworked, underpaid, blah, blah, blah. We've heard it and said it all before. We will continue to do so until we change "the system". What are we doing about it? California has a union, and along with Australia, a nurse/patient ratio in place. When we tried to unionize our nursing staff at my facility, the majority signed union cards, and then ended up voting "no". Conditions "improved" to keep the union out. How many of us, in general, belong to our professional organizations? Not many, I'll bet. I don't. That makes me part of the problem. Nursing is a calling, just as any occupation one feels good about doing regardless of how nasty the conditions are. So to fuel the ever burning fire....if you don't have time to use the restroom or eat or if the staffing is unsuitable, or if a process at your place of work is undesirable, use the same problem solving techniques for all and do something about it. I was offered a job in our IS department that needed nursing knowledge in the applicant. Better pay, better hours and a leadership position was the payoff. You have to be able to "play the game" to know how to change the rules. There are plenty of opportunities out there to make a difference for nurses, patients and ourselves.

acadia · Nov 23, 2006

dorselm, do you know any of the staff at the hospital where you will be working after edu.?As someone mentioned, it does help a great deal if the others you are working with have a sense of humor. I add humor, also a sense of everyone working together, comittment, humor, real care for people, and humor. I do not like crushing a dream for anyone, because I think nursing will be better one day again. Maybe it will begin with new nurses such as yourself.Some places are better to work than others, I do still hold out hope of finding, not the perfect nursing job(no such thing) but one that I can live with and still have my life when I get home.I hope this helps your Thankgiving a little. Studying ahead will help because you will have to know these things anyway, I would keep preparing. You will find book learning vs IRL working very different for sure as in many professions and keeping your eyes open, very wise.

Simplepleasures · Nov 23, 2006

I am so glad to see a forming consenses here and yes it is the big U word union.I got flamed in another post for advocating nation wide unions.California has the right stuff, and they are trying to unionize the rest of the nation, why not go to thier website and email them letting them know that you and how many other nurses you work with ARE interested in organizing.Why do we nurses continue to fall for the crap that the healthcare industry throws our way when nurses try to unionize? We cant possibly continue to be so naive.If a union drive begins in your facility I would strongly recommend getting it in there and voting yes, cause if you dont, once its over the facility will go back to their old ways -but even worse. So if Minnesota, Michigan and New York as well as California are mostly unionized, I think its only a matter of time till the rest of the country follow suit.And as Martha Stewart says , "Its a good thing". :specs:

Gromit · Nov 23, 2006

Well, Ive never been a fan of unions, and yes, I've been IN a union before (Teamsters, actually) but I must say you make a very compelling argument.

But how good are they in states (like Florida) that rob unions of their bite by being a (crap, I forget the term, but you can be fired without reason in Florida -so striking -which is the unions greatest most powerful tool- could get you a spot in the unemployment line). Unions have ruined entire industries (Autoworkers, for the best example) but there are still areas where they are certainly needed. As Nurses ( a field in which the demand far outpaces the supply) we SHOULD be able to demand better conditions, pay, etc etc., but we don't. We certainly should be in the drivers' seat -its not like they can just replace us at a moments' notice.

mixyplixy · Nov 23, 2006

Part of the problem is the other nurses too...I was on a unit at UC San Francisco and was told by other nurses "nurse on this unit care enough our patients we dont have TIME to take a breaK"...meaning if I did, I would be thought of as uncaring...so I left there anyway. Other places I have been the same thing has been implied. Been a nurse for 12 years, quite enough thank you in Med Surg. going to try corrections on a state level...at least they insist on proper breaks, educational ops etc. We shall see....

Gromit · Nov 23, 2006

Wow! Bad enough that you aren't given the time for a break (which seems pretty typical) but that you're made to feel like you shouldn't expect one ( -that you don't care about your patients if you DO want a break) is rediculous. Sounds like a pretty bitter place to work, to me.

I have a friend that works on the county corrections level, and he seems to like it well enough. He absolutely hated working in the hospital environment, tho.

ahf4699 · Nov 23, 2006

Once you become an RN, work a few months and then comment on the question at hand. A business career is truely a different kind of animal compared to being an RN or being in the medical profession. Just wait and see. Im sure your ideas will still be the same but achieving those ideas are nearly impossible each day you work.