CONTINUED IN WHAT IS THE MAJOR REASON Why are they all leaving?

[artistnurse]

What conditions would cause so many nurses to leave? Our ER has been losing friends fast. Why is there such a large turnover in nursing? I'm going to school, yet I talk to many RN's who are looking for a new career!!

[TrudyRN]

This is Mulan's opinion and not mine, I feel that the poster's point is well made. This comment reflects what is the "public's idea" of how a Nurse's day goes. We on the "inside" feel that we know best. When I was a secretary, I took my break, but also had to stay over at times to type a contract or an appraisal. Boy, I really thought I was overworked. When I was a telephone operator, I NEVER got overtime. The supervisor would come unplug my station and tell me to go home.....Again the "public sector."

I believe what is different in the two circumstances is that nurses are made to feel that they are substandard if the patient is not ALWAYS put first. Sometimes it turns into a Martyr Mary situation. Instead of eating our young (I HATE that phrase) we nip at the heels of our co-workers. To make the floor or our unit look good, we give up what is our own time.

I got a counseling note in my "permanent record" because I told a transporter I'd be right there after I went to the loo. At my age when you gotta go, you gotta go. She left the patient in the room and told her supv. the Nurse refused to come help her. And my NM believed her.

I've seen Nurses clock out and come back to finish, because it's the only way they can chart and not be called away by duty. Somehow it's better to be able to say "sorry I'm off the clock."

Now I'm no longer on floor work, I look back and see that there were times that I could have gotten a break, but it was the unit mentality that kept me from it. After all your co-workers don't do it, so maybe you shouldn't either?

I used to work in an ICU where the rest of the staff were so intent on showing how capable they were of doing everything without help. Lifting, turning, taking care of 6 pts while there was not even a secretary to answer the phone, recovering surgical pts when Recovery was closed, drips and more drips. I just refused to try to cover the phones and do pt care. I figured the phone could ring from now to doomsday. I was going to be with my patients. And I was going to ask for help when I needed it. I did not last long there.

[Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN]

I may be wrong, and I'll find out when I graduate: I still think everything is what you make it.

Yes you are, and yes you will.

We were all once eager and excited about our new careers in nursing. There is a reason for the so-called shortage. Nurses are leaving because conditions are intolerable.Believe me, thousands of nurses have been doing their best and have been trying to make the best of impossible situations everywhere.

Saying that nursing is "what you make it" is a meaningless statement.

You haven't been there so you can't understand where we are coming from. One day, you will.

[twotrees2]

Yes you are, and yes you will.

We were all once eager and excited about our new careers in nursing. There is a reason for the so-called shortage. Nurses are leaving because conditions are intolerable.Believe me, thousands of nurses have been doing their best and have been trying to make the best of impossible situations everywhere.

Saying that nursing is "what you make it" is a meaningless statement.

You haven't been there so you can't understand where we are coming from. One day, you will.

i have to agree- went in with high expectations and really wasnt so bad way beack when - had the idiotic poitics as always but over last ten yrs o would haveto say its really gone downhill. someone posted elsewhewre maybe someday it will change - doubt it - its all being overrun by corps whos bottom line is the almighty buck which in health care doesnt work........ we can make the best of it with what we are given but its still not gonna make it pleasnat cause we arent given a whole lot of anything to work with anymore. sad but true. i just hope the OP isnt to shocked when getting here.

[Miamiman911]

[wow comments like this makes me not to go into nursing, i see now why the shortage of nurses, is there is anything that can be done????quote=Mulan;1908980]Well, when you don't even have time to use the bathroom and you have to stay 2 hours over to get your work and charting done as recently happened to me on an evening shift, does that tell you anything? Of course, since I didn't have time to use the bathroom, I didn't get my half hour meal break that I don't get paid for to begin with. I asked about signing for no meal break and was told you have to call the supervisor and fill out some PTO form, and I'm sure you get flack for that from the manager so I didn't even bother, since if no one else does it, it looks like you have a problem.

So much responsibility and liability and you don't have the time to do the work properly because of the staffing and nurse to patient ratio.

This is a new job for me, working prn, and this is my last nursing job, I decided I would give one more nursing job a try and then that's it, I'm doing something else. It's too soon to tell yet, but when you find yourself working only what you have to to fulfill your committment instead of what you wanted to before going in, that's not a good sign.

[Miamiman911]

I am a nurse student and after reading all of the negatives about the workload,nasty doctors, odd hours in this forum, I have a question? it is worth it? Financially and Spiritually can a person live in peace with this profession, or will I get burn out and discouraged , can anyone offer me a word of hope???

[Gromit]

Is it worth it?. Hmm. Well the only one who will truly be able to answer that question for you is yourself. You just have to see if it works for you or not, and for how long (if ever).

For ME, is it worth it? Yes. Absolutely. Sure, this field has a lot of downsides. I've had attitudes from other nurses and even from patients just because I was a man in a 'womans' field (as was once told me by a charge nurse). But those are exceptions, not rules. I get along quite well with my female colleagues. Sure, the hours can be a bit bad (but to be honest, I rather prefer the 3 twelve-hour shifts a week -and sometimes will pull four of 'em for the overtime ) and the workload is USUALLY a bit excessive. We have lost two unit coordinators (and anyone will tell you that a unit secretary (the other name) takes a BIG load off the nurses' shoulders -a good one is priceless.) they both were back in college and went into different fields. Now we usually have no UC, and rarely have techs -in short, we do all of the work ourselves. I work on an ICU-stepdown unit, most of our patients are hard-wired telemetry, ventilated, and in isolation for one thing or another, and they usually (of course) have plenty of things wrong with 'em. Saying they are a challenge is something of an understatement.

Sure, many patiens can be a bit whiney or gripe a lot -and that doesn't even describe their families.

OK.

BUT there are plenty of upsides as well:

I happen to like the hours, and while the pay is less than I think we are worth, its better than any job I've held previously. Its not bad, to say the least. You can usually schedule your hours in such a way that you have 3 days of "hell" (grin) but 4 days to do what you will (your own time). I like to schedule mine so that I have two days between the three-day shifts, leaving me almost a week off -and I go hunting, or ride my motorcycle on long trips -in short, liesure time.

This is pretty much the only field that gives you the ability to literally pick up your toys and work somewhere else -pretty much ANYWHERE else, if you want to. Travel nursing is taylor-made for this kind of activity. Imagine spending a few months here, then working somewhere else for a few months or so, etc etc etc. There aren't many jobs that allow this kind of behavior -but ours is one of 'em. If you're tired of doing one part of nursing (say, med-surge) then get a class under your belt, or take a training program, and transfer into something else, and you get a different set of circumstances, patient type, environment to work in (say a specialty like cardiac, or an ICU type (many large hospitals have categorized their units and floors -mine is large enough that they broke the title "icu" into a number of different categories). Perhaps you need a change and go to a small facility for a while. Thats the beauty of nursing -you have a very wide variety of 'sub fields' AND environments to choose from. And thats just the ones involving some degree of patient care.

I have a friend who works about half a year (he works his tail off, grabbing overtime when he can, and working extra hours at a different facility when he cant.) then he goes traveling around the world for the other half of the year.

Sure, the work, the environment, and even the folks you work with can be a bit of a downer, pain in the butt, and in some cases just not worth the effort, but it can also be far better than that. Only you will be able to answer weather or not nursing has what you need.

[Sheri257]

Well, Ive never been a fan of unions, and yes, I've been IN a union before (Teamsters, actually) but I must say you make a very compelling argument.

But how good are they in states (like Florida) that rob unions of their bite by being a (crap, I forget the term, but you can be fired without reason in Florida -so striking -which is the unions greatest most powerful tool- could get you a spot in the unemployment line). Unions have ruined entire industries (Autoworkers, for the best example) but there are still areas where they are certainly needed. As Nurses ( a field in which the demand far outpaces the supply) we SHOULD be able to demand better conditions, pay, etc etc., but we don't. We certainly should be in the drivers' seat -its not like they can just replace us at a moments' notice.

I don't buy into this argument that unions will ruin the healthcare industry. Ratio law opponents always like to point out hospital closures that have occurred in California and try to blame the ratio law for it.

But, in my area just as an example, the largest hospital went union three years ago. The union just negotiated a major pay raise this year that's going to increase even further come January. This pay raise has substantially increased pay for all RN's since other hospitals also had to raise their pay to compete.

Yet ... despite the ratio law, increased labor costs with the union pay raise, etc. this hospital has just announced plans to build a brand new hospital. A cardiologist is also trying to get approval to build a second hospital. And, 40 miles away, another hospital is also building a second, brand new hospital in that area.

Seems like business has been booming ever since the union came to our area with three planned hospital expansions.

As far as laws in other states ... that's part of what unions do ... changing the laws. It is a long term process ... it took the California Nurses Association 12 years to get the ratio law passed but, it was well worth the effort.

The number of licensed RN's in California has jumped by 37,000 in just the last 17 months ... mostly because of the ratio law.

:typing

[Sheri257]

If a union drive begins in your facility I would strongly recommend getting it in there and voting yes, cause if you dont, once its over the facility will go back to their old ways -but even worse.

This actually happened to the respiratory therapists at one of the facilities in my area where the RN's went union three years ago. Once the RN's went union, the RT's and other workers considered joining a union also.

However, management promised them big pay raises etc. and the RT's fell for it. They voted against the union. Sure enough ... three years later ... the RT's are now furious because management renigged on their pay raises.

Meanwhile, because of union negotiated RN pay raises which are guaranteed by contract ... new grad RN's are now making more than veteran RT's with 20 years experience.

So ... it is true that management will promise anything to keep the union out and, in many cases, they will renig on those promises.

:typing

[Gromit]

And yet certainly you cannot deny that the Unions have been a large part of the cause of damage to the auto industry. Unions can serve a purpose -and I do not deny that the Nursing community could well benefit from them -however unions never seem to know where to draw the line (and with good reason -if a union isn't fighting for someting for YOU, then you would start to question the reason for its existance -and it would then have to justify the reason to maintain membership.)

Part of the reason that the unions have such a difficult time in states with 'right to work' laws is that they have a harder time holding a company hostage (since the company can just fire you, and hire non-union workers to do the job. If the union settles, they don't HAVE to take you back. )

And I have no doubt that hospitals that could not bring in enough nurses to be in compliance with the ratio laws probably DID end up closing their doors because of them -however I'm definately in favor of such laws -for the safety of the nurses AND the patients.

[Sheri257]

And yet certainly you cannot deny that the Unions have been a large part of the cause of damage to the auto industry.

I don't believe this either. Wasn't there yet another report in the news this week talking about how unreliable cars made by American manufacturers are compared with companies like Toyota? Do unions actually design the cars? No.

Detroit has been making lousy cars for years ... and they've completely missed key changes in the marketplace. Detroit totally blew off hybrids and dismissed it. They only got into it very late in the game after they saw Toyota's success with hybrids. Can you blame unions for that? No.

You could eliminate the auto unions tomorrow and, Detroit would still be having problems. The auto industry's problem is really with management, not a unions.

:typing

[Gromit]

Sorry, but management cannot shoulder ALL of the blame. And unions are far from innocent. When a company begins to lose its ability to be cost-competitive, you have to look to where the money is going. I never said that unions were the end-all and be-all of evil. But they can't really be called saints or faultless, either.

$20/hr push-brooms and lightbulb changers owe their wages to union contracts. I know these guys aren't the norm, but they are certainly symptoms. And if you don't think Unions have damaged industries, then you haven't had much cause to look at the phosphate or other production industries either. As for Detroit, detroit makes what the people ask for. I disagree that their vehicles are junk -sure they have made junk, but you can hardly paint them all with the same brush. The older Automakers from this country are buckling under a number of things -and I don't think hybrids are the major problem -many people would love hybrids, but many others don't have any interest -they want vehicles with plenty of horses under the hood (I myself, when not riding a motorcycle, drive an F-250 7.3L diesel -this truck has over 200,000 miles and is still going strong. Hardly junk. The wifes' Explorer just turned 100,000 yesterday -though I have replaced a brake switch on it, it still doesn't qualify as junk). I notice you forgot to mention the sweetheart retirement packages that the unions managed to get out of the companies -of course the companies are now buckling under the strain trying to pay for these (and they aren't able to do so) -of course, you could say that management is at fault for agreeing to pay them in the first place, but as I recall, strikes were hurting them in the first place, and they had to give in.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not EVER going to give management a clean pass, but to say the Unions can do no wrong is to hide your head in the sand.

[Sheri257]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not EVER going to give management a clean pass, but to say the Unions can do no wrong is to hide your head in the sand.

And don't get me wrong either. I do know that unions can do a lot of wrong ... definitely. I've been a union member in the TV industry ... the union was corrupt as all get out. It was horrible.

And I don't think the California Nurses Association is totally innocent either. I've seen them do a lot of bad things. But, overall, they have delivered stellar results compared with other unions I've been involved with.

And in my particular area ... they really have delivered with wages and working conditions. I am very impressed with CNA but ... SEIU, for example, who also represents nurses in Cali is a completely different story.

It's just that my husband is a former auto mechanic and the design flaws he's seen with American manufacturers have been a problem for decades. It always cost a lot more for him to repair an American manufacter's car than a Toyota car, just as an example, because of major design flaws that went beyond stupid.

Detroit's solution has been to blame unions, cut workers benefits, etc. and ship manufacturing off to Mexico etc. instead of making a quality product. And yeah ... not everybody wants hybrids but niche markets can and do eventually become major markets and, there's no question that Detroit totally missed the boat on that.

You can only go so far in blaming unions for what essentially comes down to a management problem.

:typing