An actual 1955 Good Housekeeping article

nurseguy55 · Dec 9, 2006

God! This discussion has dredged up deep feelings in me. It is the paradox that has frustrated me for nearly forty years.(didn't think about these things the first 12 or 13)

It's the frustration of seeing both sides, and passionately believing in elements of them both. Why did we toss Jimmy Carter out of office? He was so intellectual and vascillating that he seemed indecisive. Ronald Reagan was simple, linear in his thinking and we (me included) cheered at the refreshing clarity and conviction to principle. But when I read and listen to Carter both then and now, I have to respect the intellectual turmoil. This crap is complicated! But we are in a metaphorical football game and want the bold, decisive direction of a quarterback, not the wandering, intricate analysis of a post game commentator.

I don't know about most people, but g#d d$mnit... I'M BOTH!!

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Dec 9, 2006

Well, I'm glad that you aren't a lemming like many out there today. You also have quite a age gap on my generation, and I'm afraid your logical approach isn't shared by a large group of people my age . I hate making broad generalizations, but your points are correct. People do need to work together in a relationship. Divorce wasn't always considered "hip" or okay.
I think even setting the article aside, I still would rather have been a husband in that era than present. The same can be said for raising a family.

Yes, but would your SO have rather have been a wife in that era than in the present.

Or more so, if the tables were turned - would YOU have been happy to never be permitted to vote, never have a right to a voice in the care of your kids or family, or how money is spent in the house. Or be beaten/assaulted with no legal recourse. Be allowed to nearly bleed to death - bleeding, because the MD refuses to do surgery on your procreative parts, without your spouse's permission (happened in the 60s-70s). Or be sterilized without your consent or knowledge, because you are an orphan or had too many children or were a teen that was judged wayward by your parents (as recently as the 70s). Or be institutionalized on the mere say so of your spouse, because the spouse finds you annoying and wants your money (30s-50s) and because you are not "submissive" enough.

House slaves before the Civil War were cared for by their masters, and many fared quite poorly after they were freed. And their former master's lives were more difficult and one can argue that thre was a great deal of social disorder. I am sure many on both sides of the question thought wistfully of the "Good Old Days", where slaves were cared for (Not always and there was abuse), and there wasn't mixing of the races (there was but it was ignored and covered up), and where the master had it easy. But I don't think that anyone will be arguing to turn back the tide on that one.

I also have yet to see anywhere that Divorce is considered "hip" or okay.

nurseguy55 · Dec 9, 2006

God! This discussion has dredged up deep feelings in me. It is the paradox that has frustrated me for nearly forty years.(didn't think about these things the first 12 or 13)

It's the frustration of seeing both sides, and passionately believing in elements of them both. Why did we toss Jimmy Carter out of office? He was so intellectual and vascillating that he seemed indecisive. Ronald Reagan was simple, linear in his thinking and we (me included) cheered at the refreshing clarity and conviction to principle. But when I read and listen to Carter both then and now, I have to respect the intellectual turmoil. This crap is complicated! But we are in a metaphorical football game and want the bold, decisive direction of a quarterback, not the wandering, intricate analysis of a post game commentator.

I don't know about most people, but g#d d$mnit... I'M BOTH!!

I love the gentleness of men with women, hearing, affirming, etc... But I also like to see the arrogant bastards of the world get their ass kicked when it's called for. I believe in the knight in shining armor who lays down his life for his lady. But I've witnessed the horrifying results of a male centered system that hides the abuse of low life men and silences their victims.

A strong man who would lay down his life for his children and their mother should be the standard. But as a gender, we have such an ugly history of abusing that privilege that it is more a cause to roll one's eyes in cynicism than believe in it anymore.

I look back and wonder... what the hell do we believe in? I don't mean the pulpit thumping, rhetoric of hesitation and modulation I see dumping itself through cable TV on CSPAN and religious channels. I mean that quiet determination that happens in one person's heart and never surrenders. It state's " This is what I believe, this is what I live, this is what I will never compromise for comfort, security, riches, fame or anything."

That is why I can't think about these issues on large scale. I don't believe they happen on a large scale. But I still believe they can happen, for me, for my children, and grandchildren, but only if we quit making fun of them. Honor is real, if I choose to be honorable. Integrity still exists if I demand it of myself and refuse to be treated otherwise, no matter what it costs me.

I watched my brother slowly die of cancer.

The day he died, I looked up at that hospice nurse who held his hand, administered the narcotics, and wiped his ass, comforted his wife and teenage kids, his mother, father, sister, and brother. A brother who went back to college @ 37, a month after the burial, gave up a 15 year marriage and seeing his kids go out the door to school each morning and run up the sidewalkto him @ the end of the day shouting " Daddy's home!!! Daddy's Home!!!"

All to become a nurse. to give back a fraction of what that hospice nurse gave me, gave my brother.

If it's all a joke, an illusion. I should have walked away from that grave 15 years ago and kept delivering mail for the post office. If I stop believing in Don Quixote and William Wallace(Braveheart), and the heroes of legend who would rather die suffering, or live with ridicule for the dreams and principles and passions they carried in their souls....my life is a terrible failure.

No. I don't believe in the 1955 Good Housekeeping rules for wives. But neither do I believe in the 2006 morality of Grey's Anatomy (though my partner and I never miss it).

There had better be a third choice. God help me if there isn't.

God help us all.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Dec 9, 2006

There is an old award winning book by Margaret Attwood (sp?) called "The Handmaid's Tale". May I suggest some might want to read it?

Liddle Noodnik · Dec 10, 2006

There is an old award winning book by Margaret Attwood (sp?) called "The Handmaid's Tale". May I suggest some might want to read it?

Lol, a fascinating read! :trout: Can you just imagine?

jyoung1950 · Dec 10, 2006

Precisely the reasons I stopped reading women's magazines years ago. Month after month of new suggestions, new ideas, new ways to do things, - wore me out just trying to keep up with it all - because after all, the unmentioned message I finally got wind of was that I couldn't survive without all their help. They stick in their little "I am woman, hear me roar," ads and all just to touch base with the feminist angle. Well, I guess they have to have something new to continue to sell their mags. But they don't get money from me anymore.

Oh, and, by the way, since I don't frantically attempt to improve myself with every new idea coming down the pike every few weeks, I am alot more comfortable with myself. I also avoid women's programs on TV - same thing only with moving pictures.

Liddle Noodnik · Dec 10, 2006

Precisely the reasons I stopped reading women's magazines years ago. Month after month of new suggestions, new ideas, new ways to do things, - wore me out just trying to keep up with it all - because after all, the unmentioned message I finally got wind of was that I couldn't survive without all their help. They stick in their little "I am woman, hear me roar," ads and all just to touch base with the feminist angle. Well, I guess they have to have something new to continue to sell their mags. But they don't get money from me anymore.
Oh, and, by the way, since I don't frantically attempt to improve myself with every new idea coming down the pike every few weeks, I am alot more comfortable with myself. I also avoid women's programs on TV - same thing only with moving pictures.

Even Cosmopolitan Magazine, a seemingly "liberated" mag, aims at teaching you ways you can please your man, in the bedroom, the way you dress, all those advice articles, cooking, the same messages as you said. The way they sell it though is by promising that supposedly your sex life will be better, or you'll feel better, or your relationship will be better ... it is still about clothing, about being attractive and "clean" and somewhat manipulative in order to get what "every woman wants anyway", a "good" man. LOL

And do we get what those mags promise?

I don't THINK SO!

jyoung1950 · Dec 10, 2006

I was born in 1950. I remember in one of my elementary school grades there was one child whose parents were divorced. Once I found out what that meant, I was filled with terror for a little bit that my parents would someday get divorced. Since divorce was so relatively rare, over time and not being exposed to it, it became out of sight out of mind. And I wasn't feeling so frightened.

We talk about those days as if every wife was abused, every husband was a dictatorial cad and so on. We act like every household on the street back then had horrible child abuse going on behind closed doors.

I won't deny that it never happened but in the enormity we seem to think?

Wonder if kids still feel that anxiety when they one of their friends' parents get divorced. "Will this happen to my mommy and daddy?"

RN34TX · Dec 10, 2006

Even Cosmopolitan Magazine, a seemingly "liberated" mag, aims at teaching you ways you can please your man, in the bedroom, the way you dress, all those advice articles, cooking, the same messages as you said. The way they sell it though is by promising that supposedly your sex life will be better, or you'll feel better, or your relationship will be better ... it is still about clothing, about being attractive and "clean" and somewhat manipulative in order to get what "every woman wants anyway", a "good" man. LOL
And do we get what those mags promise?
I don't THINK SO!

I'm so glad somebody brought that up.

My female colleagues bring those "Cosmo" type magazines to work every day.

I will admit that I will read some of the articles for shear entertainment purposes.........

"10 ways to find out if he's cheating..."

"What men truely find sexy...."

"What to do if his ex-girlfriend calls..."

However, it does disturb me that these articles are disguised as advice for modern independent women who are "supposedly" no man's slave or fool (yeah right!) - yet at the same time teach them how to basically stalk them if they are not interested or how to cling on to a failing relationship by wearing the right shade of lipstick or how to go through their man's e-mail or cell phone to find the tramp that they are seeing on the side.....

People are kidding themselves if they think that Cosmo in 2006 has a much different message than Good Housekeeping did in 1955.

The message today may not be how to keep a clean house and not complain or ask questions if he stays out all night like in 1955......

Today it may be how to keep yourself thin and sexy in order to keep him interested so that he doesn't stray....or how to go into his computer or cell phone to find out what women he's been in contact with behind your back.

It just makes me laugh to see some women that think that they are so independent and "no man's fool" yet not much different than in 1955 because their life basically ceases to exist without constant love and attention from a man.

adrienurse, LPN · Dec 10, 2006

So where is a woman supposed to learn skills in the bedroom, from her mother?

lorster · Dec 10, 2006

As a guy I would never want my wife to be like that... I dont know many guys who would now unless they are just self-centered a*******

There are still a lot of guys like that. Look at the older generation and many of them raised their sons like that. It will be a few more generations before we have changed this way of thinking.

Liddle Noodnik · Dec 10, 2006

So where is a woman supposed to learn skills in the bedroom, from her mother?

Nothing wrong with learning "skills" - lol - but this point was said so well in the post following mine:

"...Today it may be how to keep yourself thin and sexy in order to keep him interested so that he doesn't stray....or how to go into his computer or cell phone to find out what women he's been in contact with behind your back.

It just makes me laugh to see some women that think that they are so independent and "no man's fool" yet not much different than in 1955 because their life basically ceases to exist without constant love and attention from a man."

In each issue you may find one article re cooking, one re career, PERHAPS mention of self-esteem, spirituality, the joy of life itself - the rest of the mag seems to center around sex, getting that man and finding ways to keep him coming back.