ADNs - I was wrong, so I will apologize

[BrandyBSN]

Hey all.

Many of the student nurses have already heard this, but for those who were not online when I got home, I will explain.

Many ADNs have taken a few of my posts as condescending. I didnt outward say exactly what I thought, but their conclusions may have been right.

I did think that a BSN nurse was better than an ADN nurse. But I didnt have all the facts. Logically, I could not understand why anyone who dispute this "fact". Unfortunately, for my pride anyways", it is not always a fact.

In theory, my thoughts were "if I have been doing assessments for 4 years, and you ADNs have been doing it for 2, have on earth can you say that I would not be better at it than you?" But, I had the wrong "facts".

After going home this weekend to play golf, i talked to a few of my friends from highschool that have gone into nursing at different universities. They were a year behind me in school, and they are juniors in their BSN programs now. They were talking about "just starting assessments". I asked "havent you been doing that for a while now?" I was shocked to learn that they hadnt done ANYTHING related to nursing in the past 2 years. They were just starting.

You see, in my nursing program, we start doing assessments as Freshmen, during our first semester. So I assumed that all nursing programs did that if they offered BSNs. I learned that this is NOT the case. From what I gathered, my program is an exception, not a rule. Many dont even accept students into the nursing major until 60 credit hours have been completed, and they have junior status. If this is the case, then BSN nurses who have attended those programs have no more "nursing" education than those who have an ADN, and have gone for 2 years also.

I cried when I found out. I learned that I was SOOO wrong! I thought that since my physical assessments, and clinical skills started when I was a freshman, that all other programs were the same way. I will have had 4 years of assessment technique when I graduate with my BSN, but not all BSNs have that. Many started out when clinicals started in the JR year, not before. SO they really do only have 2 years of "nursing", and 2 years of gen eds. Same experience level, same length of nursing education...

Not all programs are like mine, and not all programs are just for the JR/SR years... but learning this has really changed my opinion on a lot of issues.

I honestly dont "think" I meant to be condescending in my posts, but in all likelyhood, I probably was. I am a student, 21 years old, and I often jump to a side before I have all the facts. I am still young, and still learning... but I can promise you all this. From now on I will look much more closely at the "quality" of the education, not the quantity".

I am still very proud of my BSN education, which really is nursing for the full 4 years here, but I guess I am "more" proud of my nursing program than I actually am of my degree. I'll still wear it on my name badge, and I will still sign it once I pass my NLCEX, but i will think about it differently now. It doesnt quiet hold the same "status" symbol for me that if did before this weekend. All programs are not created equally, and all nurses are not created equally, but the degree that you hold says very little about who you are, and what you do. I always felt that I would be a Bachelor of Science in Nursing degree holder first, a nurse second... I feel like I will be a Registered nurse, who happens to have a Bachelors Degree. Quite a turn around for my stubborn brain. Yeah, im still damned proud, but not of my degree as much as what I have learned, and what kind of a nurse I hope to be, and what I can do for other nurses and my patients.

So... here is the apology part of my post. Tricia, Anne, LeAnn, and any other ADN nurses that I have offended, or have been condescending to, rather purposefully, or subconsciencely, I am truely sorry. But I can promise you this... My way of thinking has changed. Qualtily is better than quantity, experience always outranks education, and this chick KNOWS that she has a lot to learn. And I thank you for helping me learn this valuable lesson. I am sure I will be a better nurse because of what I have learned from all of you.

Thanks for Reading,

BrandyBSN

[tiger]

I FEEL LIKE YOU MAY LEARN SOME THINGS IN SCHOOL BUT THE MAJORITY OF ASSESSMENT SKILLS COME WITH EXPERIENCE NO MATTER WHAT YOUR DEGREE OR HOW MUCH TEACHING YOU HAD IN SCHOOL. YOU'LL SEE WHEN YOU GET OUT THERE.

[Scooter]

Hey Brandy,

I'm sure your apology is greatly appreciated by those that you offended. I heard about it while discussing this site with a friend. We are both going into an ADN program.

Please understand that it is not possible for some of us to attend a four year program. There are those of us that are going into nursing after careers in other areas, and see a (2) year program as being a suitable option to get our new careers going. As a single parent with no support from my child's father, I feel a (2) year program would allow me to start a new career without going to deep in debt, then attending a fastrak BSN program. Hopefully I will have an employer that offers tuition assistance.

So you see Brandy just as we all have our reasons for going into nursing, we also have our reasons for choosing the programs that we choose. The only thing that really matters is that our hearts are in the right place, and that we all strive to do our best.

I also notice that you seem to post alot of apologies. May I suggest that you try responding instead of reacting. Trust me it works. Also, you give great advice. Keep up the good work in school.

Scooter

[catlady, BSN, RN]

I haven't read your earlier posts, but I'll say this--all your "extra years of assessments" makes a difference in, oh, maybe the first month or two out of school. After that, it's what you do on the job that defines you as a nurse. I am a diploma grad (with two non-nursing degrees)--but I have sixteen years' experience, and many other solid credentials. Yet many new grad BSNs think they're somehow better than me, Lord knows how. And they extend this arrogance to other diploma and ADN nurses, without the slightest justification.

[codebluechic, ASN, RN]

I thought I knew so much when I graduated 5 years ago, I laugh about it now. Nothing prepares you for nursing except experiece in the real world.

[P_RN, ADN, RN]

Brandy, you haven't come across as condescending to me. (A little young, a little naive but not in a mean way.)

Thirty five years ago we were being told the same things about the BS programs vs the AD. I didn't believe it then, I don't believe it now.

DOING, or knowing HOW to do assessments is nice, what comes with experience is the knowing WHAT to do with what you find out with the assessment.

We had an example once of a new nurse (won' say AD or BS right now) who did an excellent head to toe assessment of a new admit with a cold foot.

The problem was is she FINISHED her assessment...including the pulsatile mass in the patients abdomen and the total lack of a pulse in the foot BEFORE she called the doctor. She almost LOST her patient to a hugemongous AAA.

P (and I STILL won't put *all* my letters behind my name) RN

PS I've been doing assessments since late 1962.....always learning, still don't know enough.

[Peeps Mcarthur]

"Real world" experience occurs AFTER school. In any professional training. Students are in a bubble compared to what REALLY goes on when you're drawing a paycheck. That's why I have purposefuly chosen to go through LPN-MSN.

In order to advance in the specialties in nursing you need to have clinical experience. Clinical experience does not begin until you draw a paycheck that relies on your keeping that paycheck coming in every two weeks:eek: Your time management will be different when you have ten needy patients, and the last shift has dumped on you. Then you will evolve into an outstanding nurse. You've already begun by realizing you may have been looking at this wrong, and that is one of THE most important assesment skills to develope.

I can see that you're already on your way, as humility is the beginning of character, but the beginning of wisdom is realizing that you don't know everything:p

I'm sure, however, that you will excel at this new challenge, just as you have with the others. I think that it's just outstanding that you have done so much with your life, at an age when I was just trying to work as little as possible while retaining enough beer money as not to sober up:rolleyes:

I'm goin to go to work as a nurse after my first year. I have seen what LPN's do, and can tell you that if they took thier badges off you couldn't tell the difference between them(I have worked with both). By the time I finish my BSN, I will have been drawing a paycheck, and will have done everything in(and not in:eek: ) The book.

I'm not in a situation that forces me to go to work as soon as possible. I have a decent paying job as a salesman that averages about $12-$15 an hour. I'm not going the LPN route because my grades may not be good enough to get into a BSN program. I have a 4.0 to this point. I'm going to be an LPN because I want to have four years of EXPERIENCE before I go for my MSN, and the experience of working as one before I'm qualified to comment about thier attributes, or weaknesses.

[dazedandconfused]

I went to school for my BS. Had 3 1/2 years in the program. I learned more at the hands of the LPNs and Aides in my first year after graduation than I did all that time. To this day I am thankful that I had a wonderful group of ladies that taught me well. You never stop learning and practicing. Just my 2 cents:D

[pegg rn]

i am an adn and proud of it! i work in icu/cvru, and nurses in our units do not get preferential treatment/assignments just for there degree. and, they don't make any more money. i think an rn is an rn. the only difference your degree is going to make is if you go in to manegment. i have also worked with several bsn nurses that actualy lacked clinical skills going to work on the floor because there schools stressed manegment in nursing rather than knowing their clinical skills.

[Y2KRN]

Didn't we all sit for the same licensing examination, that deemed us minimally competant to provide professional nursing care within the scope of practice for the state to which we applied.

I personally feel that the different levels of entry for nurses is a good, a two year degree is more doable to some people than others. I am a perfect example of that, a two year program fit better for me. I had a one year old and was five months pregnant when I started the nursing program. The closest universities to me were between forty five minutes to an hour away. I will get my BSN or even MSN when the time is right for myself and my family.

With the shortage of nurses, I say make the educational requirements as flexible as needed to accomadate attracting more people to the profession. As for commitment for education that has been addressed in another thread, all nurses exhibit this when they obtain CEU's, take classes, for their specialty, and most importantly learn from practicing the science and art of nursing on a day to day basis as part of the job. Are we not continually learning, and isn't that a commitment to education?

The client is the most important focus and knowing that they have a nurse whether it be an LPN, RN, BSN, MSN,they know they are going to be provided with professional nursing care and have an advocate for their rights.

Thank you for you apology, life experience is perhaps the best education of all.

Y2KRN

[mcl4]

So... here is the apology part of my post. Tricia, Anne, LeAnn, and any other ADN nurses that I have offended, or have been condescending to, rather purposefully, or subconsciencely, I am truely sorry. But I can promise you this... My way of thinking has changed. Qualtily is better than quantity, experience always outranks education, and this chick KNOWS that she has a lot to learn. And I thank you for helping me learn this valuable lesson. I am sure I will be a better nurse because of what I have learned from all of you.

Thanks for Reading,

Brandy

I think you will make a better nurse without the attitude and if you look towards good nurses who have acquired knowledge through experience. Most are willing to give their time to help you adjust to your new position. Honestly, some find orientating a new person a pain so try to look for the nurses who like to teach which includes CNAs, LPNs and RNs. Good luck.

[Chevelle]

I think it was admirable of you to admit what you did and to apologize. I am not somebody who was affected, but I still wanted to let you know that I think you deserve applause for stepping up!

Great job and I wish you tons of luck with your future!