frequent call offs = termination = paying unemployment

merlee · Nov 29, 2012

I am surprised that your facility doesn't question this. When some one is fired for 'cause' they may collect at first, but the facility is allowed to object. Then there may be a hearing to decide if the 'cause' is legitimate; and if it is, the fired person will have to pay back all they collected. Of course, this is different in every state.

I was once fired in LA and collected; and it was pursued by my former employer. The agency sided with ME and I continued to collect.

I am puzzled why your facility allows this to continue. Were you told to overlook this stuff? Fire them anyway - this kind of junk is contagious.

Best wishes!

llg, PhD, RN · Nov 29, 2012

Why does your employer keep hiring such losers? With all the good people around looking for jobs, I would think that an employer could find better employees. Is it because the work environment is so terrible?

If you had good jobs in a good working environment available ... good people would be seeking those jobs and wanting to stay in them.

Nascar nurse, ASN, RN · Nov 30, 2012

We also appeal every unemployment claim and I have sat thru many of resulting hearings (which now take place thru a conference call with a judge and the ex-employee). We are required to send in our evidence to both the law judge and the ex-employee. In that packet, I always include a copy of all signed disciplinary actions as well as the attendance policy that they signed upon hire. When it is my turn to testify I make sure that the law judge is very well aware that I am taking care of dependent elders that count on staff to be present or their health and safety is in grave danger. Haven't lost one yet!

cwgrlup85, ASN, RN · Nov 30, 2012

Thanks for all the words of wisdom! My administrator does fight against these and I have a hearing coming up. It just seems like it is so easy to get unemployment, at least I guess in Illinois. The working conditions are great, even the state surveyors called us "the cadillac of nsg homes" and there are only a select few I have had to terminate and they were hired before I became director. Trust me I pick and choose my new employees wisely to avoid these types of people.

BrandonLPN, LPN · Dec 2, 2012

We also appeal every unemployment claim and I have sat thru many of resulting hearings (which now take place thru a conference call with a judge and the ex-employee). We are required to send in our evidence to both the law judge and the ex-employee. In that packet, I always include a copy of all signed disciplinary actions as well as the attendance policy that they signed upon hire. When it is my turn to testify I make sure that the law judge is very well aware that I amtaking care of dependent elders that count on staff to be present or their health and safety is in grave danger. Haven't lost one yet!

You appeal EVERY unemployment claim? Not one of your former employees deserve unemployment benefits? What if they had to be terminated due to absences beyond their control?

Nascar nurse, ASN, RN · Dec 3, 2012

You appeal EVERY unemployment claim? Not one of your former employees deserve unemployment benefits? What if they had to be terminated due to absences beyond their control?

Yes, we appeal EVERY unemployment claim. Our attendance policy is pretty liberal in my opinion. We go with a rolling calendar year and consecutive call offs for the same reason = 1 call off (like if you are out for 3 days with the flu = 1 call off). It ends up taking 8 call offs within a rolling calendar to end in termination. FMLA and bereavement do not count.

What's your definition of "absences beyond their control"? If you asked 5 people for their definition would they all give the same definition? The flu is beyond your control. The babysitter calling off is beyond your control. The car breaking down is beyond your control. See my point.

With all that being said, I am ultimately responsible for the residents and ensuring that there is adequate staffing to provide for those residents. I can't do my job if I have staff that routinely fail to show up for work. Funny enough, my own staff would back me up that that those I've fired do not deserve unemployment. I do my absolute best to go above and beyond to keep my staff away from the the magic #8. They all know that if they work with me I will always do my best to work with them. They have also been relieved to see me fire a few because they were also sick of the excuses and sick of working short because of them. (Yes, I have PRN staff but they never seem to be available at the last minute and my corporation allows NO pool staff).

BrandonLPN, LPN · Dec 3, 2012

I understand why you have to let people go for chronic absenteeism. Even if it's circumstances beyond their control, it's not fair to the rest of the staff who have to work short. But there was no former employee who deserved unemployment? They all deserved to have it denied?

Nascar nurse, ASN, RN · Dec 3, 2012

Yes, corporate policy is to appeal every claim. I'm curious now, tell me a circumstance that an employee in our profession deserves unemployment....it's not like I lay someone off due to lack of work.

cwgrlup85, ASN, RN · Dec 4, 2012

I agree with you Nascar. We also have an attendance policy very similar to yours as well. I have even worked with staff based on individual circumstances and even given last chance agreements.

BrandonLPN, LPN · Dec 4, 2012

So is it policy to deny unemployment to any employee who is separated from employment for any reason?

Nascar nurse, ASN, RN · Dec 4, 2012

So is it policy to deny unemployment to any employee who is separated from employment for any reason?

Brandon, I have found that I agree with you on at least 95% of your posts on AN. You seem like someone I would enjoy working with. But, you are confusing me on this one. I have answered this question at least twice now. What are you not getting...or better yet, what are you getting at? Lay it out. Nothing wrong with a respectful disagreement.