Forced to stay at work...?

[WannaBeNrse]

Hi,

i would really like to know what others think about this..... yesterday, we had two people call in sick for the pm shift. So at 2.15, 15 minutes before our day shift was over, our charge nurse informed us that one of us would "have to" stay. "Us" of course meant only the aides. She seemed to feel no obligation whatsoever to cover for the absent staff members.

Anyway, none of us volunteered- one had no babysitter, two were already in overtime, one had another job, one had plans for the evening, i was not feeling well and also had a lot of homework to do yet. So none of us aides wanted to stay. So the charge nurse walked around pointing at each of us saying "you can't leave". Then she said we have to figure out who is staying, more or less implying that it should be me (since the other aide's excuses seemed to be more valid in her opinion i guess). I said I would not stay. I was too stunned by her field marshal behavior to say anything else, but I was determined not to stay. She said okay, lets flip a coin. Just before it came to that, the aide who had plans reluctantly agreed to stay. I felt like everyone was pointing fingers at me, though.

I am soooo mad. Not once did it cross her mind that maybe she should stay. Is that really so unreasonable? I mean, she's in charge, and if none of us aides can stay, shouldn't she be the one to step in and cover the shift? After all, it's basic nursing care, it's within her scope of practice, right? She acted as though she owns us, like she can FORCE one of us to stay. I am really tempted to file a grievance against her.

I personally do not feel like it is my obligation to cover for staffing shortages- especially since there is no incentive for doing so. We get no bonus, no overtime pay, just our regular wage, yet we are expected to put our life on hold and stay. I don't think so.

What do you think? How are situations like this handled where you work? And do you think I should complain about the nurse and her condescending behavior?

Thanks!

[Atheos]

I have not found anything in the rules for CNAs in North Carolina only for licensed staff. Here is what it says in our employee handbook.

IF YOU ARE DUE TO LEAVE (AT THE END OF YOUR SHIFT) YOU MUST MAKE SURE SOMEONE IS THERE TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE PATIENT. YOU MAY NEVER LEAVE A PATIENT ALONE. LEAVING A PATIENT ALONE IS GROUNDS FOR IMMEDIATE TERMINATION AND LEGAL LIABILITY IF THE PATIENT IS HARMED IN ANY WAY. IT IS CONSIDERED ABANDONMENT AND NEGLECT AND IS PUNISHABLE BY LAW.

That's why you should read your handbook BEFORE you agree to work there.

[vmoh18]

This place is really not a bad place to work. I love working there and even if I didn't thier pay rate is so much higher than other places in my area that I would deal with it. Call outs do not happen that often, but when they do we have to stay. And most of the time it is only for an extra hour or two. I do not put my job before my family but I am also not going to do anything that is going to jepordize what I have worked so hard to achieve either. So if I have to stay and work extra hours I suck it up, call my hubby and he calls someone to pick our child up or he goes and gets her hisself.

[Miwila]

I would have quit on the spot.

I am a hardworking, conscientious worker. I am not some slacker with a bad attitude who acts as if I am doing my employer a favor by coming to work. On the other hand I am also old enough and have been in the workforce long enough to know precisely how those in charge like to push their underlings around and I organize my finances in such a way that no one forces me to do anything.

I work 7am-7pm Fri-Sunday. At my intitial job interview I made it clear that I have a work-at-home job in the week and I also take classes. This is something that was established at the job interview and by hiring me they agreed they were cool with it. It is their perogative to change the rules in the middle of the game, I guess, but if they tried it on me and tried to threaten me with disciplinary action (first of all I don't do threats and coercion from middle management) I would have explained all of the above in a calm manner and informed the charge nurse that perhaps the nursing facility and myself were no longer compatible.

[pagandeva2000, LPN]

I hate to say it, but a job that involves shifts (particularly in health care) can mandate you to stay. The flipping of the coin is not the right way to handle it, however. And, the need seemed to had been for a CNA, not a nurse. If a nurse is needed to stay, then, the same rule should apply. For example, if the facility has the correct compliment of nurses to cover the next shift, but is short an aide, and there is no replacement, then, an aide is mandated. If there are enough aides to cover, but an LPN is needed, then, they have to mandate an LPN. Nursing is 24 hours. It is not favorable, for sure, but, in most cases, it has to be done. It should be offered first, then, rotated. Unions will say that it should start with the least senior person and work it's way up to the most senior person.

On a private note, I have been ****** when I was mandated as well...no one wants to be forced to remain after a hard shift...especially when you have children, or even plans to go to a party. In my heart, I don't feel any real obligation to the job, however, I also know that this is part of working on the units where the service is provided 24 hours a day.

[txnursingqt]

I have not found anything in the rules for CNAs in North Carolina only for licensed staff. Here is what it says in our employee handbook.

IF YOU ARE DUE TO LEAVE (AT THE END OF YOUR SHIFT) YOU MUST MAKE SURE SOMEONE IS THERE TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE PATIENT. YOU MAY NEVER LEAVE A PATIENT ALONE. LEAVING A PATIENT ALONE IS GROUNDS FOR IMMEDIATE TERMINATION AND LEGAL LIABILITY IF THE PATIENT IS HARMED IN ANY WAY. IT IS CONSIDERED ABANDONMENT AND NEGLECT AND IS PUNISHABLE BY LAW.

Being a CNA when you leave at the end of your shift the nurse is there to take over the responsibility for the patients. That is why in most cases CNA's are NOT mandated to stay. The patient's are not being abandoned because they do have a nurse to care for them.

[pagandeva2000, LPN]

Being a CNA when you leave at the end of your shift the nurse is there to take over the responsibility for the patients. That is why in most cases CNA's are NOT mandated to stay. The patient's are not being abandoned because they do have a nurse to care for them.

That may not be true, because the nurse has to receive report, delegate assignments, administer medications and treatments. In most cases, LTC has at least 40 patients on a unit. Can one nurse take care of ALL of them; change, feed, shower, medicate, etc... And, if she has to make a schedule with a staff shortage, can it be assured that the patients would be properly cared for? It is hard to ensure that, even with a full compliment of staff required by the state, never mind a shortage due to a call in, weather emergency or whatever else would cause an unexpected absence. The best way to obtain an answer is to clarify what this statements means to the CNA as well as the nurse. In addition, you should contact the BON of your state.

[vmoh18]

It is our facility policy that if it is a CNA that calls in then a CNA must stay. We have three halls with some being private rooms and some semi private. There are 3 CNAs per shift and one nurse. So if one of the CNAs is not there to cover her hall the nurse can not handle the hall plus all of the duties she has to get done. We also work one on one somedays, so if the next shift calls in then there is nobody to cover the patient but you.

[pagandeva2000, LPN]

It is our facility policy that if it is a CNA that calls in then a CNA must stay. We have three halls with some being private rooms and some semi private. There are 3 CNAs per shift and one nurse. So if one of the CNAs is not there to cover her hall the nurse can not handle the hall plus all of the duties she has to get done. We also work one on one somedays, so if the next shift calls in then there is nobody to cover the patient but you.

The same for our facility. ESPECIALLY if a patient is a 1:1. How can a nurse stay arm's distance from 1:1's (what if there are more than one?), give meds, showers, treatments, emergencies, write notes, etc... It is almost the same as saying that if a nurse calls in sick, a CNA should be mandated to remain in her place, where the CNA is not trained or licensed to do the nurse's job.

Listen, I understand why ANYONE would be angry if they are forced to work overtime at the last minute. Any aspect of nursing is hard, physical labor. We have children, spouses, we are tired, have plans, etc... However, it is not always the case that there are agency people waiting to be called when unscheduled absences occur. There are times where the supervisors have no choice but to mandate someone. Any place that has shift work means that it is supposed to be run 24/7, including holidays, weekends, snow storms, or whatever. If it is possible, the best people can do (especially these days with this economy) is to hopefully work a shift where it may cause the least amount of disturbance to our personal lives; and even that is not always possible.

[txnursingqt]

You all have a very valid point and I don't think a nurse could get it all done so I totally agree.

I will say that when my mother was DON she had to go in LOTS of times when there was no CNA to cover. It used to drive her crazy when she worked as a floor nurse at other facilities and the DON would refuse to come in. My mom said in her eyes that was her JOB and if you don't want that responsibility then don't go into management.

Personally, I don't usually mind the extra hours but then again I love MONEY! LOL.

[pagandeva2000, LPN]

You all have a very valid point and I don't think a nurse could get it all done so I totally agree.

I will say that when my mother was DON she had to go in LOTS of times when there was no CNA to cover. It used to drive her crazy when she worked as a floor nurse at other facilities and the DON would refuse to come in. My mom said in her eyes that was her JOB and if you don't want that responsibility then don't go into management.

Personally, I don't usually mind the extra hours but then again I love MONEY! LOL.

It is good that your mother, who was a DON did go in to assist. I was not there, but I am sure that she didn't limit herself to say, a 1:1 patient, but assigned herself to a more global tasks to allow the CNAs to render 1:1 care where needed. When a supervisor comes and shows that she is not above taking on daily tasks, it usually gives the subordinates incentive to work harder. Our nursing supervisor also jumps in where necessary to make the units run more smoothly.

The point I am trying to make is that in most cases, nursing is 24/7, and unfortunately, mandation can be expected, even if not appreciated. In addition, one cannot assume that the nurse is the only person responsible for patient care. It is true that she is the ultimate one riding it on her license, but, part of the nurse's job is also delegation, so that she can perform the tasks that unlicensed personnel are not legally responsible for.

[cjcsoon2bnp, MSN, RN, NP]

I'm am just glad that I work in a state that doesn't allow mandatory overtime. I understand why some places have mandatory overtime but as a student if I work as a CNA somewhere I can't miss classes the next morning because someone else called out and I had to do a double. Now if it was the summertime and I didn't have class or some other pressing commitment then I probably wouldn't mind doing a double if someone asked.

[pagandeva2000, LPN]

I'm am just glad that I work in a state that doesn't allow mandatory overtime. I understand why some places have mandatory overtime but as a student if I work as a CNA somewhere I can't miss classes the next morning because someone else called out and I had to do a double. Now if it was the summertime and I didn't have class or some other pressing commitment then I probably wouldn't mind doing a double if someone asked.

This is why I say that a person that has commitments like school, kids, etc, should try (if possible), to work a shift that has the least interference into their personal goals and commitments, because you never know. What I would be curious about is if your state does not allow mandatory overtime, but there is a severe shortage, how is it handled? Do they let you walk out, anyhow? Is it that easy to replace people through agency staff? Because sometimes, agency nurses and CNAs that are not called very often migrate to other agencies or facilities that give more hours, which can still cause a shortage.