I live near the gulf where evacuating for hurricanes is a possibility around this time. The hospital where I work places nurses on teams. One team is forced to say, the other forced to come back 24 hrs after the hurricane is gone, and the other can come back when regular citizens come back.
My question can they legally do this? I was placed on the team that's forced to stay in the hospital with pts. They'll keep ICU, ER and MY floor open only.
There will be no extra pay, no bonus, just regular pay and time and 1/2 when you're in over time. Expected to sleep in the hospital, in semi-pvt room WITH ANOTHER CO-WORKER!
If the evacuation is mandatory how can they legally tell me to stay and WORK? Can I be fired for leaving?
Specializes in Gerontology, Med surg, Home Health.
I work in long term care. I've been at work for hurricanes, floods, and blizzards. We had a huge blizzard on a Saturday. They called me because I lived close by and asked me to come in. The facility had a generator so there was heat and light. I was the senior person there and had to mandate staff to stay. No one really liked it, but we made the best of it. I was there for 36 hours with one hour of sleep. You do what you have to do. PS. It was a union building but the governor declared a state of emergency so.....
OP, I have a very serious question for you: What alternative solution do you suggest?
Hospitals are not schools. They cannot have snow days and close the doors and tell everyone to stay home. Patients in the hospital are sick and need care. Other people continue to get sick or injured even during a natural disaster. If every hospital in your area closed their doors, what would happen to the people who are sick or injured? If the hospital staff left after their shift, and no staff were able to come in to replace them, what would happen to the patients?
No, being on a "stay team" is not an ideal situation. But you know what? Sometimes in life there are no good solutions to problems. There is only the best choice out of the worst solutions. Before you start complaining and arguing about the policy, I would encourage you to put yourself in the shoes of the administrators who MUST come up with a solution to these potential problems in advance. So please spend a few minutes doing this. What ideas do you have to make the disaster plan better? What pros and cons are there to the ideas you have?
Last September I was scheduled to work the weekend that Hurricane Irene was meant to strike the east coast. Employees were told that we were not allowed to call out during the disaster- we were expected to be there to work if scheduled. It would be considered a no-call, no-show and we could risk losing our job. I knew that if I were to leave after my shift on Saturday night there was a very good chance I would not be able to get back to the hospital on Sunday morning due to flooding. I knew that there was a good chance I could lose my job. Was I FORCED to come in? No. Were there consequences if I chose not to? Yes.
So what did I do? I arranged to have my dogs boarded in a safe place. I packed extra clothes, toiletries, and food and planned to stay at the hospital all weekend to be there for my shifts. I slept in a spare hospital room with several co workers and got up the next morning to work another shift. Was it an ideal situation? Absolutely not. Was it necessary? Yes.
You know what happened that Sunday while I was at work? My house was flooded with three feet of water. We lost thousands of dollars worth of possessions. Furniture, clothing, appliances, personal effects... When I left work on Sunday night I was unable to return to my house due to flooding. I was able to pick up my dogs and I spent a week staying with a friend with nothing but the bag I had packed in the hospital.
But you know what else happened that Sunday night? I was helping our team of doctors stabilize a critically ill 4 year old child with leukemia in septic shock. We intubated her, got her on a conventional ventilator, placed a central line, placed an arterial line, started her on vasopressors, gave her fluid boluses, hung antibiotics, drew blood work, switched her to an oscillating ventilator, added more vasopressors, gave blood transfusions, and drew more blood work.
Now, let me ask you- what would have happened to that little girl at your hospital if there was no disaster plan in place? If there were not doctors, nurses, respiratory therapists and pharmacists who were mandated to come to work? Who would have cared for this patient, whose broken, run down immune system didn't care that there was a hurricane outside? Nobody- and she would have died.
Are disaster plans perfect? Absolutely not. Do they put the staff in a great situation, with benefits and extra perks and smiles on their faces? Not one bit. But for the sick, the injured, and those who cannot survive without us- are they necessary? You better believe it.
albeit they should be asked of her union reps and she should know what is in her contract.
The "if you don't like it, leave" attitude is hardly beneficial here. If that was always the attitude, then we'd all have no country (let alone place of employment) to call home.
As said above, without a union, jobs are pretty take it or leave it, especially in the current situation of nurses being a dime a dozen.
Admittedly it'd be pointless trying evacuate Los Angeles you'd never get anywhere ala the end of the world according to John Cusack.
Is it possible that I'm not the only one who makes their disaster plans based on natural disaster movies?
the truth is if this is a policy she can't live with then her only option is to find another place to work. the hospital is not going to change its policy based on her complaints so this is actually pretty sound advice.
i know, right? i mean, i get kind of tired of the people here who want to dictate the exact way in which they receive the opinions that they solicited. i'm sorry that "if you don't like it leave" is too short or abrupt of a response, but it's just the response some people chose, because it's kind of the truth. some people aren't as diplomatic as others. i don't feel like i'm here to protect egos and coddle people who can't deal with the responsibility of having a big girl job.
The "if you don't like it, leave" attitude is hardly beneficial here. If that was always the attitude, then we'd all have no country (let alone place of employment) to call home.
This is such an interesting comment, because this is exactly the OP's attitude in her first post. She doesn't like the working conditions, and wants to be able to leave the hospital when her shift is over.
The "If you don't like it, leave" attitude is not at all beneficial here. If that was always the attitude of all nurses and health care workers, then all the patients in the hospitals would die during a natural disaster.
I have worked through tornadoes in KS and Hurricane Ike in the only hospital(direct hit) that was open during the storm. We were allowed to bring our family and we rode out the storm and evacuated the next day. It was one of the most scary things I have been through. We took care of pts and thier family members. The building shook and swayed and it sounded like a bomb was going off. Windows broke out in the halls and patients room windows cracked and water poured in. The wind was so strong it could suck you towards the window. The day we evacuated there was no water and so we couldn't flush toilets and had a limited bottles of water to give meds and the ac went off and people were slipping from the humidity on the floor. The thing that bothers me the most is the people they made stay to work had spouses and kids but the ones without kids were allowed to evacuate. NM made that decision which i think is not fair. It make sense to have criteria for who stays which would be people without kids, not caring for elederly parents, live close to hospital and so forth. We were paid for all our time and they fed us. I still would never do it again.
Specializes in GI, ER, ICU, Med/Surg, Stress Test Nurse.
Nurses hired at our facility are required to come in if they are scheduled to work. Our big issues are spring Tornado's and Winter Snow and Ice in the North GA Mtn's. When they hire you, you are given a personal disaster planner, so that you can have a plan in place for your family if you are unable to leave work or if you have to come into work for a disaster. We are not allowed to use the excuse there is 10 inches of snow and my car cannot get out of the drive wayor a tree fell on my car during the storm last night, if you forsee bad wheather and it is likely you cannot make it to work the next day because of the weather then you are expected to come early and sleep at the facility if need be and they do not promise you a simi private room/ bed to sleep in, you may have to sleep in an area where there are just streatchers. Do we like it? NO, Do we comply and show up for work? YES. it is very much part of being a Nurse.
I know, right? I mean, I get kind of tired of the people here who want to dictate the exact way in which they receive the opinions that THEY SOLICITED. I'm sorry that "if you don't like it leave" is too short or abrupt of a response, but it's just the response some people chose, because it's kind of the truth. Some people aren't as diplomatic as others. I don't feel like I'm here to protect egos and coddle people who can't deal with the responsibility of having a big girl job.
It has nothing to do with being coddled or being diplomatic. To be quite honest, I find your answer to be very intellectually lazy and dripping with condescension, no offense intended. Quite the contrary to "therapeutic communication" in any field, in my opinion. It may feel good rolling off the tongue to sound so tough ("big girl") over something like this, but let me inform you that this isn't a matter of being "tough." I'd also like to satirically point out that it takes a big fish in a small pond to act tough amongst nurses
In all seriousness, this is a matter of worker rights, which will be neglected at the drop of a hat so long as people take the "just deal with it or leave" attitude. That's exactly how professions loses quality, potential or current employees. It's also the attitude that allows industry to rape and pillage whoever allows it. It's the same mentality of expecting nurses to stay until otherwise notified or "lose your job," while admin's and physicians are treated like a superior race of human being.
I hate to keep bringing up 'union' because I really don't like unions, but this is the exact sort of reason why unions are needed. The well-being of the nurse should not be a sacrifice made by the institution on behalf of the patient while doctor's & admins receive better treatment while the nursing staff is not even sufficiently reimbursed for their time, effort and commitment.
My father works for an electric company. Guess what happens when the electricity goes out? He gets called out at all hours of the night, rain snow & storm to work on power outages for those in need. He doesn't get much choice in saying no or when he can go home, either. But guess what? He's adequately reimbursed. They don't pay him time and a half to go risk his life and be away from his family during natural disasters, even as miniscule as a snowstorm.
This is such an interesting comment, because this is exactly the OP's attitude in her first post. She doesn't like the working conditions, and wants to be able to leave the hospital when her shift is over.
The "If you don't like it, leave" attitude is not at all beneficial here. If that was always the attitude of all nurses and health care workers, then all the patients in the hospitals would die during a natural disaster.
My comment has little to do with whether or not someone wanted to leave the shift so much as the conditions. Time and a half for disaster pay? No foreseeable relief? Leave at any time and expect to be fired? No union representation? Physicians and admins get preferential treatment during disasters? THAT is what I was referring to with the like/leave stuff. The workers have to be protected, too.
"You know what they want? Obedient workers * people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork but just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly ******** jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it."
Specializes in Oncology, Med/Surg, Hospice, Case Mgmt..
OP, I have a very serious question for you: What alternative solution do you suggest?
Hospitals are not schools. They cannot have snow days and close the doors and tell everyone to stay home. Patients in the hospital are sick and need care. Other people continue to get sick or injured even during a natural disaster. If every hospital in your area closed their doors, what would happen to the people who are sick or injured? If the hospital staff left after their shift, and no staff were able to come in to replace them, what would happen to the patients?
No, being on a "stay team" is not an ideal situation. But you know what? Sometimes in life there are no good solutions to problems. There is only the best choice out of the worst solutions. Before you start complaining and arguing about the policy, I would encourage you to put yourself in the shoes of the administrators who MUST come up with a solution to these potential problems in advance. So please spend a few minutes doing this. What ideas do you have to make the disaster plan better? What pros and cons are there to the ideas you have?
Last September I was scheduled to work the weekend that Hurricane Irene was meant to strike the east coast. Employees were told that we were not allowed to call out during the disaster- we were expected to be there to work if scheduled. It would be considered a no-call, no-show and we could risk losing our job. I knew that if I were to leave after my shift on Saturday night there was a very good chance I would not be able to get back to the hospital on Sunday morning due to flooding. I knew that there was a good chance I could lose my job. Was I FORCED to come in? No. Were there consequences if I chose not to? Yes.
So what did I do? I arranged to have my dogs boarded in a safe place. I packed extra clothes, toiletries, and food and planned to stay at the hospital all weekend to be there for my shifts. I slept in a spare hospital room with several co workers and got up the next morning to work another shift. Was it an ideal situation? Absolutely not. Was it necessary? Yes.
You know what happened that Sunday while I was at work? My house was flooded with three feet of water. We lost thousands of dollars worth of possessions. Furniture, clothing, appliances, personal effects... When I left work on Sunday night I was unable to return to my house due to flooding. I was able to pick up my dogs and I spent a week staying with a friend with nothing but the bag I had packed in the hospital.
But you know what else happened that Sunday night? I was helping our team of doctors stabilize a critically ill 4 year old child with leukemia in septic shock. We intubated her, got her on a conventional ventilator, placed a central line, placed an arterial line, started her on vasopressors, gave her fluid boluses, hung antibiotics, drew blood work, switched her to an oscillating ventilator, added more vasopressors, gave blood transfusions, and drew more blood work.
Now, let me ask you- what would have happened to that little girl at your hospital if there was no disaster plan in place? If there were not doctors, nurses, respiratory therapists and pharmacists who were mandated to come to work? Who would have cared for this patient, whose broken, run down immune system didn't care that there was a hurricane outside? Nobody- and she would have died.
Are disaster plans perfect? Absolutely not. Do they put the staff in a great situation, with benefits and extra perks and smiles on their faces? Not one bit. But for the sick, the injured, and those who cannot survive without us- are they necessary? You better believe it.
Great story. Nurses like you are the reason I became a nurse. I have not been through what you have, but I live in the South and when it snows here, everything shuts down and you can't get anywhere. I remember during my 3rd or 4th year after graduating nursing school, I was working in a hospital and we had a very uhm..."stern" nurse manager. She didn't put up with any sob stories. One Friday they were calling for a significant amount of snow that night and she came to the floor and gathered everyone together. She said, "They are calling for snow tonight. It will possibly be several inches. Each and every one of you who are scheduled to work tomorrow are expected to be here and on time. We have made arrangements for you to spend the night here and it won't be like home, but you will be as comfortable as we can make you. You may go home if you like. IF.....you do not show up to work tomorrow or if you are late, there will be harsh consequences. I do not want any phone calls about not being able to get here on time." We knew she meant that we would be fired. We have no Unions here. In our state they can fire you for no reason. Every staff member scheduled to work that weekend was there and spent the night or arrived early to work. I was there. It's what we do. Someone has to be there to take care of the patients. That situation has happened to me more than once and while none of us liked it or were happy about it, I have the utmost respect for that Manager. She let everyone know what was expected and there was no debating or excuses. I was also a single mother of a 10 year old child. I always planned ahead for times like this. My family cared for my child while I was needed at work. I don't know what to say to people who don't have anyone to watch their children. I was lucky.
I would be willing to stay and help evacuate pts. But after that...? No. The hospital should close it's doors until the evacuation is lifted. You have NO IDEA what it's like. None. You haven't done it so why the long drawn out nasty comment? Last evacuation the hospital promised alot to it's employees that stayed but didn't follow through on any of it. (notice how I said LAST TIME). Being a nurse doesn't mean I'll throw myself on the sword for you. When I'm clocked in I do all I can for my pts. When my 12 hours are over. They are over.
Often in a hurricane, by the time the evacuation order is given, there is not enough time and not enough resources to evacuate everyone. How would you evacuate all of a big city's critically ill patients? Some disasters give hardly any warning at all.
In New Orleans, during Hurricane Katrina, it was demonstrated that critically ill patients cannot care for themselves.
the DOCTORS and ADMINISTRATORS are allowed to bring their spouses and children, and they are given a patient room to camp out in. I will never forget the last one I went thru~ I was so tired after being up for 3 days straight, working the ICU, and finally got to lay down. I had found an empty room on an empty wing, but just as soon as my eyes closed, here come a doctor telling me to get up because his wife was going to use that room. Sleeping on an ancient army cot in a busy hallway means no shower, too.
I promise you, if I'd been working three days and nights in an ICU and a doctor came into the room and tried to kick me out so I his wife could get her beauty sleep, I'd invite him to get the **** out. I promise you, I would not move.
CapeCodMermaid, RN
6,092 Posts
I work in long term care. I've been at work for hurricanes, floods, and blizzards. We had a huge blizzard on a Saturday. They called me because I lived close by and asked me to come in. The facility had a generator so there was heat and light. I was the senior person there and had to mandate staff to stay. No one really liked it, but we made the best of it. I was there for 36 hours with one hour of sleep. You do what you have to do. PS. It was a union building but the governor declared a state of emergency so.....