HESI is Wrong ! Let's File Suit

Nurses New Nurse

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i go to school in montgomery co. texas and have done okay in the nursing program making mainly bs through out the course, but i am not good at taking nursing test. comming from a trade background i have found that when i look at the rationals to the questions i miss it is usually that i thought of things in a common sense way not a test way. that said i have suffered through and i am suppose to graduate in may and then comes hesi. i took the test monday, march 26 and missed passing by 53 points. i can take the test again on 4/27 but i don't like my chances any better at passing it then either, i just don't test well or i at least don't nursing test well. what gives collages the right to keep you from taking the boards if you have completed 2yrs of their bs? isn't the hesi about keeping the pass rate on the first try numbers up for the college? so they look good. i have decided even if i pass the hesi i am going to retain a lawyer and sue the college for it's practice and i think that if they are going to use hesi that they should just factor it into your grade and not ruin your life over one stinking test. i would like to hear some of your options on whether or not ya'll think we should bring a national class action lawsuit to stop this madness. some students in ca. sued and won the right to sit for the board even though they didn't pass hesi and i believe that we deserve that right too. (

Specializes in NICU, Post-partum.

There isn't anything wrong with the HESI exam...but I don't think colleges should be using it to determine who graduates and who doesn't.

If a student can get through a nursing program (and do ANY of us get through without taking a gazillion exams??????) and cannot do well on the HESI, then the nursing program needs to take a look IN THE MIRROR.

Don't blame the students because the sum of the parts don't work out the way you want...that is why BON's have pass-rate standards...so poor nursing programs get shut down...not so they can use the HESI to flub with the numbers.

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Specializes in ER, ICU, Education.

I can't speak to the HESI per say because we don't use it, but I can speak some about use of testing in order to permit/prohibit progression in a course or towards graduation.

We use ATI, a similar testing system, and as instructors we were given specific recommendations that were very helpful. The testing was designed to identify both individual student weaknesses and any curricular weaknesses. For example, if all of my students in a given course have excellent scores except a small percentage, that is likely a student issue. It could be that the student had a bad day, did not know the content well enough, or takes tests poorly. The student is then to do the remediation recommended by ATI.

However, if I noticed that all (or many) students in my class performed poorly on questions related to CHF, then I might want to review the curriculum regarding CHF.

For those who are not passing, you should consider using any remediation offered to you, and if they offer test-taking strategies, I would use that. You might also find the Saunders NCLEX review book very helpful as it has really clear explanations of the rationales as well as testing strategies and is divided by topic.

The fact that one student scores poorly on a test doesn't indicate that the school is horrible or to blame. It is typically a combination of factors. This is why we ONLY use the test to identify early any students at risk of not passing. We can encourage them to remediate weaknesses, get tutoring, and strengthen their skills. Also, there are several great articles you might want to look up to those who believe the policies are unfair. Dr. Spurlock has written several articles about high stakes testing that you should consider reading and giving to the school.

I do think the implication that ALL schools use these test in an inappropriate way and only to boost pass rates is an oversimplified assumption. This is not accurate at the school where I teach. I would suggest refraining from inflammatory generalizations when approaching the school. The best results would be gained with articles and research to support your points, and presenting what you have learned in a calm and professional manner.

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Specializes in ICU, trauma, gerontology, wounds.
There isn't anything wrong with the HESI exam...but I don't think colleges should be using it to determine who graduates and who doesn't.

If a student can get through a nursing program (and do ANY of us get through without taking a gazillion exams??????) and cannot do well on the HESI, then the nursing program needs to take a look IN THE MIRROR.

Don't blame the students because the sum of the parts don't work out the way you want...that is why BON's have pass-rate standards...so poor nursing programs get shut down...not so they can use the HESI to flub with the numbers.

I don't understand why some people think using the HESI is a way for nursing schools to "cheat." The HESI is used in my school to evaluate the nursing curriculum, to help students focus on areas in need of more study, and, admittedly, to boost our first-time NCLEX pass rates. It is effective for this last purpose because without it, some students were planning on taking NCLEX more than once, considering the first try a "practice run" and not studying for it. This put our school in the unenviable position of worrying about our first-time pass rates.

No matter how strong the nursing education program is, students must prepare for NCLEX or they won't pass it. For us at least, instituting the HESI at various points in the program and as a final requirement solved the first-time pass rate problem.

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Specializes in ICU, trauma, gerontology, wounds.
I agree that many of these CC administrators have a philosophy that community colleges should support the COMMUNITY.

I agree with that philosophy but completely disagree with the goals to attain it.

1st: you do nobody any favor to preferentially enter them into a program they are not capable of finishing. This is ESPECIALLY true due to the ease with which programs subsequently drop students because they bear no penalty to do so.

2nd: those colleges do better to support their communities by providing as many successful graduates (graduates capable of passing NCLEX) as possible. Those newly minted nurses are the goal, not education for its own sake.

As such, they should consider excessive attrition a failure to meet their community's need.

So long as there are waiting lists, students are 'fungible', or interchangeable. While there might be a huge specific advantage for admissions for any given student, there is no compelling advantage for one student over the other, at least on an arbitrary basis. It does not meet the community's need to support any student arbitrarily above another, but rather, to support those students more likely to meet the needs of the community AS NURSES over others less likely to fill that need.

The programs focus, once a student is in the programs, on quality and are indeed, measured by that standard in the form of NCLEX. They should also be called to account for quantity: percent passing as a total percentage of space available. That requires a focus on the quality of a candidate BEFORE matriculation into the programs.

~faith,

Timothy.

The requirement to "take all comers" on the part of community colleges is not merely a philosophy, it is mandated because the CCs are publicly supported. If medical schools were CC-based, they'd have to use the lottery system, too. So, quite frankly, community college education of nurses has created this problem. (BTW, my original nursing degree is from a CC, so I'm not merely an associate degree-nurse hater.)

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Specializes in ICU.
for us at least, instituting the hesi at various points in the program and as a final requirement solved the first-time pass rate problem.

there's a big difference between evaluating students throughout the program vs waiting till the end to bring down the ax.

this is where attrition is important! if a school is retaining the majority of their students and has a high graduation % and nclex pass rate, then you can rest assured that it is a quality program, whether or not they choose to use hesi/ati/ect.

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Specializes in Cardiac.
There's a big difference between evaluating students throughout the program vs waiting till the end to bring down the ax.

.

No difference actually. We had a HESI prior to 1st semester, after 2nd, 3rd, and last semester. We had to pass them all. At any time that ax could fall.

If all schools added more HESIs, then we'd only have more students failing out of school at all kinds of stages. And then, all kinds of threads about how HESI shouldn't be used. About how we shouldn't hold students to standards, blah, blah, etc.

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Specializes in ICU.
No difference actually. We had a HESI prior to 1st semester, after 2nd, 3rd, and last semester. We had to pass them all. At any time that ax could fall.

That's EXACTLY my point! If someone isn't going to be able to pass these exams for whatever reason, better to dismiss them earlier in the program and save that person time and money

If all schools added more HESIs, then we'd only have more students failing out of school at all kinds of stages. And then, all kinds of threads about how HESI shouldn't be used. About how we shouldn't hold students to standards, blah, blah, etc.

Why is it worse for a student to fail out in the 2nd or 3rd semester as opposed to the last? Testing throughtout the course allows the school to evaluate the student and their program at every stage. Of course students should be held to a standard - from the beginning! Don't skirt a student along with mediocre grades and comprehension and then wait till the end of the program to see if they have really learned what they needed to. Identify it EARLY! If its really about doing whats best for the student and the school, remove the ones who either don't have the aptitude or motivation to learn the material. Students and teachers will benefit from smaller class sizes later in the program, and those who are dismissed will at least saved themselves money and time to pursue another degree.

This isn't about advocating for sub-standard students to be "carried" through a program and allowed to graduate with inadequate knowledge or ability. Its about indentifying them as soon as possible instead of at the end.

***I should note that I am not suggesting anyone in this thread is a substandard student, but just acknowleding that they do exist and should be dealt with sooner, rather than later***

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Specializes in Cardiac.
That's EXACTLY my point! If someone isn't going to be able to pass these exams for whatever reason, better to dismiss them earlier in the program and save that person time and money

Why is it worse for a student to fail out in the 2nd or 3rd semester as opposed to the last? Testing throughtout the course allows the school to evaluate the student and their program at every stage. Of course students should be held to a standard - from the beginning! Don't skirt a student along with mediocre grades and comprehension and then wait till the end of the program to see if they have really learned what they needed to. Identify it EARLY! If its really about doing whats best for the student and the school, remove the ones who either don't have the aptitude or motivation to learn the material. Students and teachers will benefit from smaller class sizes later in the program, and those who are dismissed will at least saved themselves money and time to pursue another degree.

This isn't about advocating for sub-standard students to be "carried" through a program and allowed to graduate with inadequate knowledge or ability. Its about indentifying them as soon as possible instead of at the end.

***I should note that I am not suggesting anyone in this thread is a substandard student, but just acknowleding that they do exist and should be dealt with sooner, rather than later***

I agree. But the substandard students would be here online whining about how they already failed out after 2nd semester and were "never given a chance"

See, those who fail this test will always blame the test. No matter when it's administered. Then they will blame the teachers, the school, the electrictions in the room, the thoughts in thier head.

Never themselves. There is a HESI study guide. How many have reviewed it prior to taking the test 3, 4, or 5 times?

I'm cool with having to pass a HESI each and every semester. This is a standardized test. This is what we should know. If people are getting A's and B's and then fail the simple and straightforward HESI, then they didn't learn what they should have to be a nurse (according to their schools).

I actually researched my school prior to entering it to see what I needed to do to pass. I went to the bookstore, talked with the admitting people, etc. It was the only CC in town, but I still did basic research.

But just because the school is substandard, doesn't mean that students should pass anyway. Especially if they can't pass a standardized exam.

Fact is, HESI is here to stay, and people need to figure out how to pass it.

You know, in my state, we have standardized exams that students need to pass in order to graduate high school. That's right, they can also get A's and B's in all their classes, but if they don't pass a series of exams, then they don't graduate.

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Specializes in ICU.
I agree. But the substandard students would be here online whining about how they already failed out after 2nd semester and were "never given a chance"

People will always find something to complain about, whether or not they have a legitamate concern. This shouldn't have any weight on the discussion at hand.

But just because the school is substandard, doesn't mean that students should pass anyway. Especially if they can't pass a standardized exam.

No, they shouldn't, but then again the school should not continue to operate in such a way that they keep churning out unprepared students either. Some schools appear to be hiding their substandard programs by using exit exams. That, I think, is what most posters here are alluding to.

Fact is, HESI is here to stay, and people need to figure out how to pass it.

And schools have a responsibility to their students to prepare them adequately for that test. Some students may not take full advantage of the support given, but does not change the fact that each program needs to ensure that they are providing an adequate education.

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http://www.dsteaching.com/nursing-education/educational-tests

in case this hasnt been posted before..... and in my humble (or not so much, maybe) opinion..hesi and all the nclex study books/systems are about one thing.....money.........didnt do any of it and passed first time. (long time ago, 1985)

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Specializes in Med-Tele, Internal Med PCU.

I have not read all 10 pages of this thread and what I have to say may have been said already ...

First off, HESI was never intended to be a "graded" test. It was designed to be an evaluation tool for students and schools to identify strengths and weaknesses. Providing a measurement tool for students to correct knowledge deficits prior to NCLEX, and schools to correct program faults.

Secondly, the test should be administered at different stages. We had one after 2nd semester that was cumulative to that point and another that was cumulative for the program. Each time we (students) were provided results, had to devise a remediation plan to correct deficient areas and retest in 2-3 weeks.

Yes HESI is a pain in the butt, Yes it is intimidating, but so is NCLEX. And if used correctly as an evaluation tool HESI can save the student money by rendering review courses obsolete because students already know the material.

Misuse of this tool is where the problem lies, in my opinion. Just like if you use a hammer to drive a screw into a wall to hold a shelf, it's not a fault of the hammer or the screw when the shelf falls down, it was the fault of the operator.

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re: hesi exit test

i know this is a year later but even worse happened to us regarding the hesi please read my thread i started under illinois nurses its called hesi destroys lives in chicago or better yet read the one under nursing faculty-nursing educators-/hesi exit test it post number 190 done on 7/2/09 it all about how some of the answers were given to some of the students and how the school is treating the students who didn't have the answers. you really need to read this there are so many people who didn't pass hesi and are not nurses their lives are ruined. please look into to this thanks so much if you need help please email and i can send you a copy. i am going to see if i can paste it to this message.

email me using the links above. thanks again

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re: hesi exit test

i am a victim of the devastating effects of the hesi. i have bad news for those who are fighting the hesi thru the city colleges. over spring break wia which is a source of school funding that people who attend city colleges are aware of tried to get a hesi reviewer in and pay for it. students who don't have wia such as myself and 13 others were not invited to the hesi review. wia at the last minute decided not to pay for the review because it is not part of the city of chicago colleges curriculm but our esteem interim director decided to allow the review to be held and students pay for it out of their own pockets it was 225.00 imagine having to come up with that at the last minute and most of us can't work in our final year. anyway the people who took the review were told quite a few of the answers to the test hesi version 1(all the students were not informed of the review they didn;t call us or let us know that they were having a hesi review). after completing our final year and passing we took a 3 day board paid for nclex review at malcom x college and then we got only 1 day to study for hesi in fact we take hesi the end of the week after our finals so we get no time to study for hesi because we are studying to pass finals (and then the 3 day review starts ) they don't even give us a week to study for hesi.

the day before hesi the students who were at the review were emailed 80 of the answers to the questions of hesi version -1 test so for the first time ever olive harvey passed 70 students at one time some people finished the four hour test within 1 hour how about that. we who didn't get answers mailed to us were called to the school monday the day after the test and were told that some type of computer malfunction happened and those who failed could retake the test because some answers weren't recorded correctly, not everyone would retake the test just those who failed. well we were given the answers to the test version that day, which was one day after the test and of course we went in with confidence because never have 70 people passed and we were finally given the answers to 80 of the questions just like everyone else.

the test was changed and it was much more difficult plus we spent all night studying the answers to version 1 just like the 70 classmates who had the answers saturday nite before the test. (i did ask my so called friends why would they not call everyone and make sure they had the information and i was told they thought everyone had it afterall they got it the day before the test so the had to spend the only 1 day we get to study memorizing the answers). well of course i failed 836 as well as did my other classmates. one of my classmates who failed was president of the student nurses assoc. and one of our class officers. we didn't get to graduate or take part in the pinning ceremony and i owe over 38,000.00 in student loans i did so well in school i got excellent grades and worked my fanny off. now i will never be a nurse and i am 40yrs old i wasted 4 years of my life and i have nothing but debt to show for it.

we are not being given another review like last years students who didn't pass hesi got because it was of course so many of them just like it is every year. this year nearly the whole class passed so they are completely abandoning us. i emailed the director and she emailed me back that she is on vacation and would not answer any email until she got back aug. 17th my classmate went to see the dean and now she is answering us but only because they have too. they could care less how they have destroyed our lives. i found a document with students names who have failed the hesi and that is year after year most students and i wondered what happens to all theses people 40-50 students per school where are they?

we got a letter saying we must pay for our own review to take the test for the second time. the first time where the 70 students passed doesn't count only the second time counted. (i know that evolve and the entire school knows that wide spread cheating went on but no one will admit it, i did get the answer sheet one day after the test and probably i wouldn't be this upset if i had of been one of those who passed cause i am aware that the odds are against us they don't teach us to pass hesi we do that on our own. so without the help the students who passed got most of them would not have passed some of them barely passed their classes.) last year the school paid for a rayfield review to come in and teach the students before they tested a second time this year we get nothing and if you don't have the money to pay for your own review by 7/3/09 you can't take the test until dec. how about that? for unfairness. they told us by letter that we must pay for our own review and we must provide proof and then we can retest on 7/17/09 or in dec.

i would have never wasted my money and time going to nursing school working like a dog if i had known this would happen, i understand why there is a nursing shortage? i wonder if we can take the lpn or are we just stuck with nothing? i don't know what to do should i wait till dec when i will have forgotten everything or is it possible to get into another nursing school? can anyone help or give me some answers thanks in advance for any help

left out and devastated

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