Finding Churches that Support Fighting COVID19

[FlameHeart, CNA]

On 11/1/2021 at 4:56 PM, drkshadez said:

The United Methodist Church takes this very seriously. Now you will have outliers in any denomination, but for the most part The United Methodist Church is asking every member to get vaccinated or wear a mask indoors with social distancing protocols. This goes back to our Wesleyan roots, John Wesley who founded the Methodist Movement in the 18th century. He was a very practical person in his faith and theology.

A Wesleyan/Methodist perspective is that science is a gift from God, and vaccines are an act of love of neighbor, because the vaccine is not about "I need to protect myself." The vaccine is about, "I need to make sure I have the vaccine to stop the spread of this virus to others." 

I usually do not talk religion on here, so I apologize if I ruffle some feathers.

For Catholics, some are not happy with the Pope's stance, which is everyone needs vaccinated. Again, though, these are outliers, as with any group. 

Basically, you do what you need to do to stop the chain of infection. That is an act of selfless service.

 

Agreed 100%.

 

I do not like the pope or alot of the practices of Catholicism.

 

But one my good friends is a Catholic and we agree on the core Gospel of Christ and I am glad the Catholics as an organization at least are encouraging support of the fight against COVID19.

[FlameHeart, CNA]

Alot of the church of Christ everywhere need psychology help and to read their bibles, because they think if they ignore COVID19 it will go away.

Ironically this idea didn't originate from a place of true faith but from political devotion to a Flawed Man Republican named Trump who many Christians seem to think is the next Jesus.

Jesus isn't Repbulican or Democratic, he is a King in a Kingdom it is a Monarchy. And Jesus tells us to sacrifice ourselves if it will help others, not about "our rights".

This isn't up for debate.

 

No matter how much we argue COVID19 will still spread by people who don't wear masks, this scientific fact.

 

[hppygr8ful, ASN, RN, EMT-I]

2 hours ago, FlameHeart said:

Matthew 7

 

Jesus said,

1“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."

 

1 Corinthians 5:

Paul said,

"11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 

 

12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 

13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

 

We are called to judge within the church, but not to do so hypocratically. I can't judge my brother and tell him of his sin if I am caught up in the same sin.

 

People who don't fully read their bibles will often just go with whatever makes them "feel good", that's not what the Bible teaches nor is it the Gospel. Through Jesus yes we have the forgiveness of our sins but we are also called to hold each other accountable and encourage one another to lives without sin.

 

There is a great difference between someone who struggles not to sin and someone who has fully embraced their sins and refuses to turn away from them. To find out which we are called to first walk the right way and then we can discern who is who. Then help our brothers and sisters in walking the right way and correct those who think they know Jesus but only know what they've been told and haven't read for themselves.

I don’t judge people because they don’t believe as I do. Instead I meet people where they are and gently pull them in the direction I want them to go. Nothing in the Bible makes me “feel good” the gospels were written after the death of Christ and probably not by the purported authors and Paul though a convert was just an evil sinner flawed as we all are. I had 30 years of biblical indoctrination and before I found my own way. People who seek to judge and deny people the opportunity to worship are no better than the members of the westboro (sic) Baptist church and their like. There are ways for church’s to allow safe worship for all

[Orca, ADN, ASN, RN]

I am a former Christian and current Baha'I. One major reason that I left Christianity is the hypocrisy displayed by many of its adherents. They claim to be followers of Christ, but they could scarcely be less like him in terms of their beliefs (shunning people of other cultures, begrudging helping the less fortunate, embracing the firearms culture, etc.). I also found it disturbing that if prayer did not help, it was because I didn't "believe enough". A very simplistic and self-serving way of explaining it away, in my opinion. I also had an issue with the "guilt and fear" tactics used to keep the flock in line.

I now follow a faith that encourages universal education and embraces science - indeed, openly stating that if there is a conflict between science and religion that one or the other must be corrected, and that it isn't automatically assumed that science that is wrong.

[RN0599, BSN, MSN]

Oh my dear I know exactly what you mean! I've not been to church in so long because of the way the church people have been behaving! I won't go into details but know you are not alone!

[CommunityRNBSN, BSN, RN]

I am an active member of a Congregational church in New England. They are being quite cautious about Covid (more so than the transmission rates in our area really call for, in my opinion). But even my very very cautious church does not enforce the Draconian measures you’re describing. What I can tell you is, Many churches, including mine, now offer a Zoom option. Take advantage of that and worry about yourself, not what those who have decided to attend in-person are doing wrong. Each week we have about 40 in person and about 10 on Zoom. If you want the link, send me a DM. 

[BlindWatchMaker]

When the pandemic broke, my church responded immediately. As part of the global mission of the Church of Scientology, teams of Volunteer Ministers (myself included) cleaned not only our facilities but also some essential public buildings. We bought a contraption that emits chemical sprays. In retrospect though, COVID does not transmit by contact and the work was for nothing. Want to buy a fancy sprayer?

As science discovered more things about COVID we changed our approaches immediately. Some local churches, including mine, had to shut down due to local government retrictions. When we reopened, we followed all guidelines. People in the church, while not being totally perfect with compliance, tend to follow safety practices. We are better at mask compliance than most of the population. Vaccination rates are high, I personally know that the staff I work with are vaccinated.

With properties throughout the world, the Church strives to provide a safe environment. I live in the United States. Our supervisor of properties, the US Landlord of the Church, has training as an architect. He recently visited our local organization with wind flow meters,  atmospheric carbon dioxide meters, and some other equipment. The entire building HVAC was optimized. I was told, again, to not touch the thermostats or controls.

We strive to utilize the latest in science. So far, no outbreaks have occurred at any of our organizations. We understand the due diligence this COVID protection work will take. We will meet the challenge.

[FlameHeart, CNA]

On 11/4/2021 at 6:49 PM, Orca said:

I am a former Christian and current Baha'I. One major reason that I left Christianity is the hypocrisy displayed by many of its adherents. They claim to be followers of Christ, but they could scarcely be less like him in terms of their beliefs (shunning people of other cultures, begrudging helping the less fortunate, embracing the firearms culture, etc.). I also found it disturbing that if prayer did not help, it was because I didn't "believe enough". A very simplistic and self-serving way of explaining it away, in my opinion. I also had an issue with the "guilt and fear" tactics used to keep the flock in line.

I now follow a faith that encourages universal education and embraces science - indeed, openly stating that if there is a conflict between science and religion that one or the other must be corrected, and that it isn't automatically assumed that science that is wrong.

I'm very simple, God showed me he is real and I followed him and read his Word The Holy Bible ever since.

 

I put him and his Word as authority above everything and sometimes I find the churches and Pastors and even people who call themselves Christians seem to ignore much of what The Holy Bible says and do whatever they want and claim God is pleased with their minimal and often self serving efforts.

 

2 Timothy 4

English Standard Version

 

Paul to Timothy,

"1I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: 2preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. 

 

3For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. 

 

5As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry."

 

I don't follow what's popular, Jesus wasn't, I follow the truth and I make no apologies for it.

 

Sometimes or often that ends up making me mostly alone. Which is how Jesus was treated near the end of his life on Earth.

[londonflo]

Lots of incorrect and correct scientific articles in these 2 pages.

2 hours ago, BlindWatchMaker said:

We bought a contraption that emits chemical sprays. In retrospect though, COVID does not transmit by contact and the work was for nothing.

Guess your church does not believe in hand hygiene? 

41 minutes ago, FlameHeart said:

finding one that supports Medcial efforts to fight COVID19 by practicing proper Mask wearing at all times.

You betcha. Last April when mask wearing in my state was discontinued because those who were vaccinated were considered non-infectious the new rate of infections soared. My state was at a 50% vaccination rate and more than 75% did not wear masks. Look at the Delta Variance rate since then. I do not believe we as a congregation of people have the intelligence level to discern research and use basic scientific findings to make sound decisions. In my region of the country many people use 'political science' to make decisions and we all know that politics are not a 'true science'.

When everything was shut down except for essential services, many churches (even though doing zoom services) cited their donations from members dropped significantly. REALLY Significantly! To me that is why many churches decided to reopen, social distancing, mask wearing etc be damned!

 

[BlindWatchMaker]

In fact, We do "believe" in hand hygiene. Also body hygiene! I shower before going! Hand santizer is everywhere. All soap dispensers are full. We just do not use the machines that fill the air with H2O2 and quartenary ammonia. I heard a story that we loaned one to somebody with a basement sewer backup.

[BlindWatchMaker]

At times as a practitioner of a minority religion I feel that I am singled out. I think this is the case here. Actually, I am used to this. As a Church we must be be prepared to correct misinformation.

My post concerned hygiene practices. We are proud of following all WHO and local guidelines in the 83 countries we serve. My post had no religious beliefs given. In fact, the only religious belief I will share here is from the Code of the Scientologist - "12 To support the freedom of religion." This is all religions, all countries, everywhere.

As a nurse we attended hospital provided classes in the proper respect for all peoples. I think the classes were useful - even through my patients never speak, pray, sing or wear identifying clothing. Even religious jewelry is removed due to the electrosurgical things. All nurses should utilize this information - it adds to the perception of the "most trusted profession.

[macawake, MSN]

I was just going to comment on the Covid aspect of this thread but it seems I’m unable to get past that T-shirt… Particularly the part about man = knight in armor with a big sword; leader and teacher and woman = dressed in a ball (wedding?) gown; follower and student..  I’m at a loss for words. That doesn’t happen very often. Hmm… It’s probably for the best that I don’t share any further thoughts on the subject ?
 

Back to the Covid part of things. 
 

On 10/29/2021 at 10:34 AM, FlameHeart said:

1. Everyone must wear a mask properly over nose and mouth, especially while talking.

2. Sanitize hands often.

3. Everyone must remain 6 feet apart at least even though they wear a mask, this means every 2 or 3 seats are off limits unless you came as a family (friends you bring don't count).

4. Everyone on stage must wear a mask, especially the singers, preachers, speakers, Elders, and Overseers (Pastors), because they need to set the example as scientifically proven by a study I recently learned of: singing and yelling can make your breath water droplets travel up to 27 feet and linger in the air.

5. All staff and official volunteers must be fully vaccinated and tested for COVID19 every week.

6. Upon every entrance and exit every person's temperature is checked and they are asked the standard COVID19 questions they would ask at Hospitals.

7. Security is hired to enforce all rules including removing anyone who refuses to put their mask back on or stay 6 feet apart when asked.

8. Finally: messages about COVID19 related news are read every church gathering aling with prayers following then a brief encouragement to support our local Healthcare Heroes putting their lives down on the line to protect our country especially our vulnerable loved ones from this invisible enemy.

This sounds like a dream come true kind of church.

Anyone ever found one like this?

 

 

I think that it’s a good thing to take pandemic mitigation efforts seriously, but I share other poster’s view in that many of the things you propose are excessive. I don’t think you’ll find a church like the one you described. In all honesty, if all your rules were in place I don’t think many people would go to church. I think many people might find all those rules cumbersome and oppressive.

Reading your dream rules and how you always wear more PPE when you go out in public than I do when I’m at work makes me wonder if the pandemic might have lead to you being overly anxious? Of course I don’t know your personal situation or if perhaps you are immunocompromised, but it seems to me that you are looking for a world with 100% protection and zero risk.

I fully support vaccination and I wish that all people of eligible age who don’t have genuine medical contraindications would get vaccinated as soon as possible. Regular hand washing or sanitizing makes sense, as does physically distancing and wearing a mask when appropriate. Also staying at home when experiencing any symptoms that might be an infectious respiratory disease. But we have to be able to live and enjoy life. In my opinion, we need balance. 

On 10/29/2021 at 10:34 AM, FlameHeart said:

Whenever I go out in public I wear a half-face respirator with Organic Gas filters and a face shield.