Finding Churches that Support Fighting COVID19

FlameHeart, CNA · Oct 29, 2021

What's even worse is other Christians, not me!, claiming "it isn't real" or just something the government made up to control us more and "shut our faith down", I'm living proof this isn't true when can do just about everything we did before COVID19 with masks on except maybe not hug or touch or talk so close so much as we used to. The worst though is claiming that people dying of COVID19 is no different than the Flu like it's no big deal and we shouldn't do anything to help stop it spreading. That's like the same attitude the stubborn people who refused to visit prisoners or sick people, feed hungry people, clothe naked people, etc. and yet claimed to follow Jesus and do mighty things in his name which Jesus compared to stubborn goats and he told them to leave him and never knew them as they were workers of evil and he sent them to the judgement they deserved all of this he speaks about in The Gospel of Matthew Chapter 25 and he added this, "Whatever you did to the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did to me." He was talking about the church, but the same principle applies to everyone as we are supposed to love people as we would ourselves not just do whatever is convenient for us.

Beausoleil · Oct 30, 2021

Have you spoken to the head pastor about your concerns? What denomination are you? Is the church you attend the same denomination?

Kitiger, RN · Oct 31, 2021

On 10/29/2021 at 4:34 AM, FlameHeart said:

My question is: are there any Christians here who can relate to me with difficulties with your church and have you seen any churches that actually properly follow and enforce good social distancing such as:

1. Everyone must wear a mask properly over nose and mouth, especially while talking.

2. Sanitize hands often.

3. Everyone must remain 6 feet apart at least even though they wear a mask, this means every 2 or 3 seats are off limits unless you came as a family (friends you bring don't count).

4. Everyone on stage must wear a mask, especially the singers, preachers, speakers, Elders, and Overseers (Pastors), because they need to set the example as scientifically proven by a study I recently learned of: singing and yelling can make your breath water droplets travel up to 27 feet and linger in the air.

5. All staff and official volunteers must be fully vaccinated and tested for COVID19 every week.

6. Upon every entrance and exit every person's temperature is checked and they are asked the standard COVID19 questions they would ask at Hospitals.

7. Security is hired to enforce all rules including removing anyone who refuses to put their mask back on or stay 6 feet apart when asked.

8. Finally: messages about COVID19 related news are read every church gathering along with prayers following then a brief encouragement to support our local Healthcare Heroes putting their lives down on the line to protect our country especially our vulnerable loved ones from this invisible enemy.

I, too, would like to see masks worn and social distancing used. At my church, we are asked to stay home if sick, and maintain social distancing from anyone who is wearing a mask. But most people don't wear a mask.

Singing in a crowded room is not wise. We go to Sunday School, then go home and catch the sermon on video. It works for us.

Many of your rules are too strict, and 6, 7, & 8 are over the top. You would seriously have security forcefully eject persons from the church?

FlameHeart, CNA · Oct 31, 2021

COVID19 has proven to kill people and one of the FIRST 10 commandments is "Do not murder".

But the 2nd Greatest commandment is to "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Anyone who chooses to come to church without a mask or takes it off at any time is dangerously close to causing serious potentially fatal injury to someone.

So most definitely YES to having people removed for refusing to wear a mask in church. Just like they did in the stores in 2020.

I'd seriously question validity of someone's claim to being well-informed loving humble unselfish Christian if they refused to get vaccinated and wear a mask.

FlameHeart, CNA · Oct 31, 2021

On 10/30/2021 at 7:42 PM, Beausoleil said:

Have you spoken to the head pastor about your concerns? What denomination are you? Is the church you attend the same denomination?

I've made my concerns known to one of the Elders who said he'd bring it up next staff meeting but nothing changed.

Denominations are selfish cliques that shouldn't exist like Paul says in 1 Corinthians 1.

I am a child of God YahWeh and a follower of Jesus The Christ. The world calls me a Christian ("mini-Christ") which I also use to call myself and others.

I stick to The Holy Bible above all else and live my life by it according to what I know and understand which is alot more than most western Christians are willing to do for their "make me feel good about myself" hungry culture.

I'm not sure what denomination the church I go to is, but based on some of their teachings and government I would say leaning towards Penecostal or Charismatic although their core is pretty soild and they don't preach a "you'll be rich with money if..." message.

allnurses Guide · Oct 31, 2021

I don't have much use fror organized religion these days. This is primarily due to the sanctimonious person who pound on the Bible without even knowing what it means. The primary tenant of Christianity is to "Judge not lest you be judged in turn. " Practicing Christians have a Covanent with GOD which was established first with Abraham, renewed with Moses, and renewed again with the sacrifice of the "Christ". You are not even living by the Commandment you quote.

As far as the T-shirts, No one at my facility would be allowed to wear such a shirt as we treat all people no matter their religious beliefs, and many of our patients would be offended by the shirt's message. I wear a small Celtic cross as a symbol of my Irish heritage and I had to fight to be able to wear it.

I agree with @Kitiger that you proposed rules are Draconian and not very Christian. The Jesus you believe in waded into crowded groups of infected persons in order to minister to the afflicted without regard for His own safety.

Just something to think about.

tama18, BSN · Oct 31, 2021

In my opinion, and I am a christian feeling the same way, if they are going to reject scientific intervention for COVID with the argument that God and faith alone is enough, even though god has supplied us with resources such as medicine, then that needs to apply to everything. If God alone is enough they do not need electricity, running water, grocery stores, houses, cars, jobs, clothes, cell phones, anything material or made by science and technology. Otherwise their argument is completely invalid.

Daisy4RN · Oct 31, 2021

On 10/29/2021 at 2:34 AM, FlameHeart said:

Still I go to this church even though they have these problems and other doctrinal problems to.

I would be more concerned about the fact that you think they have “doctrinal problems” and the fact you are not sure what denomination your Church is. Denominations are not bad per se, but you should have full knowledge of what yours stands for and sets it apart from others. Covid, even if you physically die from it, is temporary, your eternal life is forever. I would not stay at a Church that I thought had doctrinal problems, I would clear this up immediately. (Ie Do they really have these problems or is there something you are not understanding). Have you prayed about whether God wants you to stay there as an example or is that just what you think (ie not Gods will for you).

That said, I also agree that your rules are over the top. My Church did some Covid measures but for the most part have stopped at this point. I know some people who do not want the vaccine but none of them are doing it in the way you state, they do not see it as tempting God, or that they are not ‘Being Christian’ by not getting it. They just see it as another personal health decision, after weighing risk v benefit, that is right for them (although as an RN I do try to fill in the obvious gaps of medical understanding that some have).

drkshadez · Nov 1, 2021

The United Methodist Church takes this very seriously. Now you will have outliers in any denomination, but for the most part The United Methodist Church is asking every member to get vaccinated or wear a mask indoors with social distancing protocols. This goes back to our Wesleyan roots, John Wesley who founded the Methodist Movement in the 18th century. He was a very practical person in his faith and theology.

A Wesleyan/Methodist perspective is that science is a gift from God, and vaccines are an act of love of neighbor, because the vaccine is not about "I need to protect myself." The vaccine is about, "I need to make sure I have the vaccine to stop the spread of this virus to others."

I usually do not talk religion on here, so I apologize if I ruffle some feathers.

For Catholics, some are not happy with the Pope's stance, which is everyone needs vaccinated. Again, though, these are outliers, as with any group.

Basically, you do what you need to do to stop the chain of infection. That is an act of selfless service.

Beausoleil · Nov 3, 2021

I think you might benefit from discussing your expectations of not only others but of yourself with a licensed professional counselor. Sometimes we need an objective third party to help us work through things.

FlameHeart, CNA · Nov 3, 2021

On 10/31/2021 at 6:23 AM, hppygr8ful said:

I don't have much use fror organized religion these days. This is primarily due to the sanctimonious person who pound on the Bible without even knowing what it means. The primary tenant of Christianity is to "Judge not lest you be judged in turn. " Practicing Christians have a Covanent with GOD which was established first with Abraham, renewed with Moses, and renewed again with the sacrifice of the "Christ". You are not even living by the Commandment you quote.

As far as the T-shirts, No one at my facility would be allowed to wear such a shirt as we treat all people no matter their religious beliefs, and many of our patients would be offended by the shirt's message. I wear a small Celtic cross as a symbol of my Irish heritage and I had to fight to be able to wear it.

I agree with @Kitiger that you proposed rules are Draconian and not very Christian. The Jesus you believe in waded into crowded groups of infected persons in order to minister to the afflicted without regard for His own safety.

Just something to think about.

Matthew 7

Jesus said,

1“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."

1 Corinthians 5:

Paul said,

"11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.

12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?

13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

We are called to judge within the church, but not to do so hypocratically. I can't judge my brother and tell him of his sin if I am caught up in the same sin.

People who don't fully read their bibles will often just go with whatever makes them "feel good", that's not what the Bible teaches nor is it the Gospel. Through Jesus yes we have the forgiveness of our sins but we are also called to hold each other accountable and encourage one another to lives without sin.

There is a great difference between someone who struggles not to sin and someone who has fully embraced their sins and refuses to turn away from them. To find out which we are called to first walk the right way and then we can discern who is who. Then help our brothers and sisters in walking the right way and correct those who think they know Jesus but only know what they've been told and haven't read for themselves.