Fear-mongering in nursing school

Nursing Students General Students

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Coming on here just to vent and see if anyone has noticed a similar culture:

I just finished my first semester of BSN nursing school (fundamentals w/ clinical, health assessment, & pharm I) at a private 4-year university. I absolutely love what I am learning and have never been more sure that nursing is my calling.

However, I notice there is a huge culture of fear-mongering among nursing students and professors. Before I actually started the program, students were telling me to be prepared for how hard the classes would be. Even advisors and professors would try to emphasize that nursing school is the hardest thing you would ever do, how it would push you to your limit, how you would have no social life and study all the time, etc. As a pre-nursing student, I was terrified to enter nursing school and what it would hold.

But after a semester...I find that their comments are almost unfounded. The sheer volume of work is a lot but the actual content of what we are learning is--dare I say--easier than my prerequisites. I feel as if nursing students and professors go around saying how hard it is, wearing it as a badge of honor. My friend group feels the same way I do, but among my classmates, all you hear are nursing students complaining about how hard their life is, how nursing school is impossible, how they're being pushed to their limit. I wouldn't say nursing school is "easy" because there is so much time just completing busywork (I.e.- care plans, concept maps) that goes into it...but it certainly isn't rocket science, like there's a reason so many people make it through nursing school vs. how many people make it through medical school. Pharm is the most conceptually heavy and even that just builds off A&P course (my university has very challenging prerequisites so maybe we were just well prepared).

So all of that to say--have any of you experienced a culture of fear-mongering in your nursing school and found it to be completely asinine? I feel as if it's a negative environment that is toxic to morale, and I just don't understand why PROFESSORS continue to propagate it. How do you separate yourself from the negativity? It is hard for someone who is already anxious to hear all this hype that I will be so pushed and so challenged, and having to deal with the constant influx of "LOL yeah good luck" is emotionally draining.

17 hours ago, londonflo said:

To see where the lack of a programmatic accreditation resulted in devastating results for students, one need only to look at the recent debacle of ITT and Breckinridge School of Nursing.

Except that that wasn't a lack of an ACEN accreditation. ITT lost their national accreditation, for reasons that had absolutely nothing to do with the quality of their education, their accrediting body wouldn't accredit them anymore because of their finances and they dug themselves too deep into a hole to fix it in time. And it has nothing to do with being a for-profit school. There's even for profit schools that have your coveted CCNE accreditations.

The lack of transferable credits also had nothing to do with them not having an ACEN accreditation. Credits typically ONLY transfer between regionally accredited schools. The idea is that while every school is going to get transfers from out of the area, the majority, almost all of their transfers are from another regional school, which means that since they have the same accreditating body, they're essentially the same class. National accreditation is too broad to be able to make that assumption. Programmatic is more of a marketing tool.

And my input would be meaningless to them. "Last year you went through 23 million dollars in revenue. Since you've only created a system that only punishes the students if the school can't get your accreditation (since every nursing program will still fill every year, whether or not they have your accreditation), and there's no actual evidence of you being a higher quality of education, which until last year you even admitted on your FAQ, you should just stop making money and go away. I'm sure Dr. Stoll would HAPPILY give up her $536,000 salary (in 2018, higher now) and agree with me." Yeah, that's really going to work.

Specializes in oncology.
2 hours ago, TheDudeWithTheBigDog said:

ITT lost their national accreditation, for reasons that had absolutely nothing to do with the quality of their education, their accrediting body wouldn't accredit them anymore because of their finances

The ITT downfall was not due to loss of national accreditation. The Department of Education withdrew funding via federal grants and loans. ITT would no longer be allowed to enroll new students who rely on federal loans and grants, award raises, pay bonuses or make severance payments to its executives without government approval. I never made the distinguishment between for-profits and non-profits and accreditation.

My statement was that scrutiny of the financial foundation of ITT would have disqualified ITT from ACEN accreditation. This is often why some institutions do not invite a critical assessment of their finances via ACEN or CCNE.

I would encourage prospective students to either do an extreme detailed analysis of their own on a non-accredited school or look for the proper programmatic accreditation. Both these may prove to be good insurance policies. BTW why did you choose your nursing program -

2 hours ago, TheDudeWithTheBigDog said:

The idea is that while every school is going to get transfers from out of the area, the majority, almost all of their transfers are from another regional school, which means that since they have the same accreditating body, they're essentially the same class.

The final determination on course transferability (credit for credit) is based on the course description. When HLC is the regional accreditor for both institutions, the course description is used if the students wishes to substitute a previous course (at another institution) for the class required at the new institution. Otherwise, the course is accepted as an elective.

In a nursing program, the curriculum flows out of the program philosophy which is developed and represents the beliefs of the faculty. This does present difficulties on transferring nursing courses from a non ACEN institution to an ACEN institution and even ACEN to ACEN institutions. Because no 2 colleges have identical curriculums and identical sequencing of content, it is difficult to determine a nursing course at one school equals a nursing course at another by HLC and ACEN accreditation alone. At my most recent college we were able to verify content similarities and accept those credits on some select courses. I wish we could do that for more. With the development of state articulation agreements, colleges can support educational mobility and facilitate the seamless transfer of academic credit between associate degree and baccalaureate programs. This has not always been the case for ADN and Diploma graduates.

Look, you currently are a consumer of nursing education by virtue of your student status. But you are exhibiting some characteristics of the Dunning-Kruger effect on concepts of program accreditation. Your inaccurate application of terms despite correction are coming into play here. I have been a nursing professor for 40 years, taught in many programs, written initial and continuing HLC and ACEN/CCNE self-studies, participated in site visits and the colleges received full accreditation each time. My CV substantiates these achievements. And you have come to nursing education relatively recently in what the last 2 -4 years? Learned a couple of buzzwords? I have tried to illustrate how you can make your thoughts known to the appropriate channels and learn a lot more on accreditation should you wish to stop talking and listen. BTW I have no idea what you are talking about in your last paragraph.

As the semester comes to a close, I wish you a bright future in all your endeavors.

1 Votes
Specializes in Dialysis.
On 5/12/2020 at 8:16 AM, OUxPhys said:

What really needs to happen is the older nurses to retire and to get new young blood in there since the world of nursing has changed dramatically since they were a bedside nurse.

Are you going to pay my bills?

1 Votes
Specializes in Dialysis.
On 5/12/2020 at 6:44 PM, TheDudeWithTheBigDog said:

I get the point of the care plans, but I agree, clinicals need to go, or be standardized and regulated into TEACHING. I've been a CNA for a couple years, I can handle a 15 patient load. So what am I gaining by managing bathroom and vital signs for 1 or 2 patients in between desk work?

Not everyone has that experience. All nursing students are taught at the same level, so this is where you are. Take into consideration as well, not all CNAs operate the same. I've met some "I've been a CNA for x years that can't give a simple bed bath. I met some who just certified that I would let take care of me. And everything in between. It comes down to making sure is educated to the same levels of care

1 Votes
2 hours ago, londonflo said:

The ITT downfall was not due to loss of national accreditation. The Department of Education withdrew funding via federal grants and loans. ITT would no longer be allowed to enroll new students who rely on federal loans and grants, award raises, pay bonuses or make severance payments to its executives without government approval.

You have it backwards. The Department of Education took away funding for grants and loans because they were no longer nationally accredited. As long as the school has a national or regional accreditation, it is eligible for that funding. That's the requirement. As long as they have that national accreditation or regional accreditation, their students can get federal grants and loans. That's literally why those accreditation agencies exist.

And without access to those federal loans and grants, they still had the option of making agreements with specific banks for guaranteed private loans and grants (student loans are insanely easy to collect on for the cost of doing some paperwork), which is something ITT had already been doing. But now that they didn't have their accreditation anymore, they couldn't be eligible for federal funding, and their degrees aren't nationally recognized anymore. For majors like nursing, that also means that in some states, their graduates can't test. And ITT's majors were extremely heavily in state regulated subjects where there is a license or certification process at the end that's required to work in that field. So losing that accreditation was a very big deal.

ASCIS withdrew their accreditation in April. THAT is what caused the Department of Education to deny federal funding for grants and loans in August. None of this had a single thing to do with not being ACEN accredited.

Specializes in oncology.
32 minutes ago, TheDudeWithTheBigDog said:

The Department of Education took away funding for grants and loans because they were no longer nationally accredited. As long as the school has a national or regional accreditation, it is eligible for that funding.

https://money.cnn.com/2016/09/22/pf/college/itt-accreditor-acics/]

"The Department of Education began the process of revoking ACICS' recognition in June, months before ITT Tech closed, but the final decision came Thursday."

36 minutes ago, TheDudeWithTheBigDog said:

(student loans are insanely easy to collect on for the cost of doing some paperwork)

And insanely impossible to discharge in bankruptcy.

39 minutes ago, TheDudeWithTheBigDog said:

But now that they didn't have their accreditation anymore, they couldn't be eligible for federal funding, and their degrees aren't nationally recognized anymore. For majors like nursing, that also means that in some states, their graduates can't test.

The International College of Health Sciences does not hold accreditation from The Southern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS) although ICHS grant associate and baccalaureate degrees in nursing.

https://www.ichs.edu/about/accreditation

The program however holds approval from the state board of nursing in Florida. Through this mechanism, the graduates are able to sit for NCLEX.

50 minutes ago, TheDudeWithTheBigDog said:

None of this had a single thing to do with not being ACEN accredited.

I never attributed ACEN as responsible for the downfall of ITT.

Look, I cannot go on this journey anymore with you. I don't know what your thinking is and I don't want to repeat myself anymore. You have probably graduated at this point in the school calendar, --- take care and good luck.

10 minutes ago, londonflo said:

https://money.cnn.com/2016/09/22/pf/college/itt-accreditor-acics/]

"The Department of Education began the process of revoking ACICS' recognition in June, months before ITT Tech closed, but the final decision came Thursday."

And ASCIS revoked ITT's accreditation in April, which is what caused the department of education to start on their process. This whole thing was because ITT lost their national accreditation. Which was the result of their business side of the school and not the quality of their education. And it definitely had nothing to do with not holding a programmatic accreditation like ACEN, which you DID attribute to why they ultimately shut down.

To quote you, on the last post of page 5: "ACEN and CCNE are programmatic accreditation. To see where the lack of a programmatic accreditation resulted in devastating results for students, one need only to look at the recent debacle of ITT and Breckinridge School of Nursing. ACEN and CCNE both investigate the financial soundness of a nursing program, ensuring that funds exist and will continue to exist and are supplied for all areas of school function. The lack of any financial accountability to the ITT students left them without a degree and without transferable credits.."

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