Excelsior

londonflo · Mar 21, 2021

When I was an Excelsior evaluator in the early 80s, the whole design for the program was that those LPNs who felt they were already doing what an RN could do, could demonstrate those skills, expertly, completely and thoroughly in a one time meeting with an evaluator. There were workbooks, required readings, textbooks, guidance candidates sought out on their own time, seeking out a platform to practice etc. Time has past and I now see there are CPNE boot camps, internet studies and students demanding a program that was once self study be a handholding, easy program that is accomplished while still working a full time job without any supervised clinical practice. I see so many students on here saying I need an online program that I can do while working FT and with no clinicals. Well, what do those students expect...... If you want to listen to real lung sounds, a program with clinical practice is what you need to seek out. If you want a program that does not require established clinicals at all but expects you to be on your game in a one time, window into your practice of skills, an Excelsior program is what you need.

Excelsior only wanted to help those who had developed a good nursing practice through their employment and who sought out learning, were independent learners and valued independent scholarly work. Excelsior was never developed for the majority of learners seeking an ADN.

BTW the article you are citing is old news. Candidates who felt just showing up to a testing station was worthy of a degree, never mind actually knowing their practice arena, sued Excelsior for their own failures and the length of time it would take to retest.

I appreciate you determined this program was not for you and that was a good decision. Every students needs to truly examine if a program will suit their needs.

38 minutes ago, katherine100 said:

There is only one way to do a leg dressing?

Of course there are many ways to do a leg dressing. The establishment and maintenance of a sterile field is an essential objective. This is what the crux of evaluation depends on.

caliotter3 · Mar 21, 2021

I first became aware of the Regents (Excelsior) program near when it started, in about 1977 or 1978. Back then, I believe there was a more clear understanding that this was an evaluation only program. Over the years the focus has been 'attacked' over and over because it did not provide a traditional nursing education, something it was never intended to do. TPTB, attempting to placate the many, have bent and changed the program to the point that it is almost unrecognizable from the evaluation program that existed in the beginning. I used to recommend the program for certain persons. Now I can not recommend the program to those same persons, because that program no longer exists. The fact that the program over the years has also evolved into a money-making, versus a beneficial to students, perspective, has also not helped any. It is very much a crying shame that original avenue toward licensing really no longer exists.

katherine100, LPN · Mar 22, 2021

@londonflo That is the point. Excelsior allows only one way for a leg dressing. I have read all about it. Most LPNs are not on their A game and cannot do what an RN does(who went to school and had clinicals does). This is why this school is seen as an issue my many. This is not the same.

londonflo · Mar 22, 2021

12 hours ago, katherine100 said:

Excelsior allows only one way for a leg dressing.

In order to have a fair and equatable testing field, any school needs to identify what steps need to be performed for satisfactory evaluation and completion of the skill. I have taught at 3 different colleges and had to evaluate students on the steps given by the skills lab educators which were different at each school. When I was practicing as a staff nurse, none of the school's sequence of steps were the way I did it in the same order;and with the same equipment. But I couldn't just start teaching/evaluating my way. Can you imagine that confusion in grading a skill that uses different supplies, different steps etc? Excelsior is not saying you have to do it that way your entire life. They just have to maintain an equal playing (testing) field. There are times we do need to change how we do a procedure because of new information discovered or new type of supplies. Sites for IM, such as dorsal gluteal are not taught in all schools now.

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Most LPNs are not on their A game and cannot do what an RN does(who went to school and had clinicals does). This is why this school is seen as an issue my many.

Yes. That is why the Excelsior program is not for every one. Forcing a program to be what you want it to be will only end in frustration and tears. I think many candidates have tried it and found that to be the case..

As Calliotter said it started out as an evaluation program and by trying to please students, state boards of nursing and accreditation standards it has morphed into another type of educational program.

CKPM2RN, ASN, EMT-P · Mar 23, 2021

I'm really curious about how the lock down and rise in Zoom classes, etc will play out for many traditional nursing schools, particularly the entry-level ADN schools. Some of the students I've spoken to who've shadowed us sure make classes sound a lot like the Excelsior classes I did in the mid 2010's. Yes, they are now getting some opportunity to shadow and do some skills, but there was a whole group that just graduated that did all their practice on manikins.

londonflo · Mar 23, 2021

1 hour ago, CKPM2RN said:

there was a whole group that just graduated that did all their practice on manikins.

But an ADN program is for 2 years. I have never heard of a program that had clinical practice for only 2 semesters. I do agree though it would effect graduates in 2020 and 2021.

CKPM2RN, ASN, EMT-P · Mar 25, 2021

On 3/23/2021 at 10:28 AM, londonflo said:

But an ADN program is for 2 years. I have never heard of a program that had clinical practice for only 2 semesters. I do agree though it would effect graduates in 2020 and 2021.

Okay, good point, I will retract my statement based on the fact that is was hearsay. I heard from some down the line people that this was the case. In retrospect I should have treated it as unreliable. Apologies.

Chesapeakers, BSN, RN · May 6, 2021

On 3/21/2021 at 5:29 PM, katherine100 said:

So happy I went traditional. You will get no clinical time. As most LPN's don't do assessments, things like lungs sounds and seeing real trauma helps alot. Imagine only listening to sounds on a DVD. Then the CPNE is another issue as small things cause students to fail. There is only one way to do a leg dressing? The cost of the CPNE is another issue. No. I do not recommend.

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/For-second-time-in-less-than-a-year-Excelsior-13153391.php

I worked 4 surgical units and ER overflow at a 500 bed hospital as an LPN and did assessments twice per shift 40 hrs per week for 3 years, plus was literally trained by the Air Force for medical trauma evacuation . How on earth can an LPN not have ever heard lung sound or seen "real trauma" if they are performing assessments every day and working trauma units? The only thing I didn't do that RN's did was push the plunger on IV meds (but set the entire thing up), change PCA bags, hang TPN/Lipids and have them sign off on a PICC dressing change. That's it. Maybe you have only pushed pills in a nursing home, but some of us had real LPN jobs.

Chesapeakers, BSN, RN · May 6, 2021

On 3/21/2021 at 11:39 PM, katherine100 said:

@londonflo That is the point. Excelsior allows only one way for a leg dressing. I have read all about it. Most LPNs are not on their A game and cannot do what an RN does(who went to school and had clinicals does). This is why this school is seen as an issue my many. This is not the same.

I took the CPNE and this is not only ignorant, but untrue. It's a test for a specific skill in a specific format at a specific time. They are testing for countless other skills over a designated amount of time, and no you are not expected to go on a marathon of wound dressing variations in 1 hour if you already have spent years changing dressings as an LPN. That is the whole point of being able to test out of the skills, duh. You have a million other skills to test on. I did not learn any more magical information about leg dressing changes in my BSN or MSN clinicals than I did in Excelsior's program. I learned the most from my surgical unit experience as an LPN changing dressings every day on the job. Which is exactly what the Excelsior program was designed for. It was not designed for low functioning LPN's that push pills in nursing homes. You learn all about different types of dressing changes in their program and on the job as an acute care LPN. I worked GI surgical as an LPN and spent countless hours with wound care nurses and docs learning a 1000 different dressings and Excelsior curriculum just added to what I already did on the job. In the test they just want you TO FOLLOW DIRECTIONS. That's it show them you know how to do a specific type of dressing for that exam day and IF you can follow directions. Clearly the Excelsior program is over your head and you need far more remedial instruction in order to become an RN. The program is just not for a nurse like you. Your inability to see this and continue to make ignorant comments on these threads is likely the reason you have been stuck as an LPN for 12 years. You need more than just skills to be a nurse, you need critical thinking too.

katherine100, LPN · May 6, 2021

6 hours ago, Chesapeakers said:

I worked 4 surgical units and ER overflow at a 500 bed hospital as an LPN and did assessments twice per shift 40 hrs per week for 3 years, plus was literally trained by the Air Force for medical trauma evacuation . How on earth can an LPN not have ever heard lung sound or seen "real trauma" if they are performing assessments every day and working trauma units? The only thing I didn't do that RN's did was push the plunger on IV meds (but set the entire thing up), change PCA bags, hang TPN/Lipids and have them sign off on a PICC dressing change. That's it. Maybe you have only pushed pills in a nursing home, but some of us had real LPN jobs.

Great. I too worked in a hospital. The excelsior of today is different. You don't get clinical time, don't get to see a variety of patients, have to do all test outs one way, etc. It's sub par when compared to what a school does.

londonflo · May 6, 2021

The demise of Excelsior is due to individuals who thought they could skim through a degree based on their thinking they already knew how to be an RN. Learning by osomsis.. We had one paramedic on here who joined a lawsuit purely because he could not pass a basic practical exam. And he was giddy that he was going to be the undertaker for Excelsior. He went on to a bricks and mortar school and failed NCLEX 3 times, oh but it was never his fault. (who needs to know drug dosages, side effects etc when you have a book., who needs to know what you can delegate? I honestly do not know what he was studying...all the other students in his class passed.)

And then we have the students who say they have no time for studying, work a full time job with children and husband dependent on them every minute of every day.

I am not trying to be mean. I have taught non-traditional students for 40 years. You need to get the whole family on board and the family will be smiling the largest smile upon graduation. It is a joint effort that will improve the family circumstances tremendously. I always suggested to new students that around late fall there may be strife as family members and students think the stress will never end. Same as Easter. Plan ahead for these tough times...study ahead.. and do a family activity.

londonflo · May 6, 2021

On 6/23/2017 at 8:49 AM, diddyL24 said:

I'm not certain how Excelsior would expect the CPNE to be a "skills check-off" when they don't actually teach you any RN skills. How are students supposed to learn these skills?

Excelsior provides the materials and information for what they expect and what you will be tested on . No, You do not sign up, fly to wherever the testing site is and meet the test blind. Excelsior expects you to have the background that supports the skills..."isn't that what some LPNs always say...I know how to do it? but I am not an RN". The substantial content that supports the skill performance is what you will learn.