Excelsior Nurses

a_clay · Dec 5, 2003

Originally posted by NursePerson
I have been told that OR, ILL, CA, And at least 3 hospitals in Ut. won't hire them due to some of the student not having enough or no clinical experence at all. Anyone else know about this?

I'm currently trying to get into an ASN program now and considered going that route and wondered that myself. I decided not to....there just seems like there would be SO much that you could learn from seeing and hands on that you can't learn from reading a book.

Agnus · Dec 5, 2003

Originally posted by amyindallas
I'm currently trying to get into an ASN program now and considered going that route and wondered that myself. I decided not to....there just seems like there would be SO much that you could learn from seeing and hands on that you can't learn from reading a book.

This depends what your background is. If you are not practicing LPN in a clinical setting or an EMT with extensive in hospital experience or you feel unfamiliar in a med serg or peid setting then I would say probable take the traditional route.

However, if you have the clinical background then go for it. As has been said this program test what you already know. If you don't have it and don't see the oportunities to get that experience then this likely is not for you.

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · Dec 5, 2003

I encourage anyone who is concerned about the quality of the grads from EC to contact the New York Board of Education and get them to send you the NCLEX outcomes for Excelsior College.

I did, and they sent me about 6 lb of paper, 99% of it tables, which compared EC to other New York schools, and EC to the grads of other states (not other states' schools, though) on their pass rate for the NCLEX.

EC grads did very well.

Also, there are a couple of other criteria which can qualify one for admission to EC--one of which is successful completion of more than half the clinicals of another ADN program (that would be me).

They are VERY particular about who they admit--there's no "adjusting grades" to improve pass rates like you find in traditional schools, and no favoritism either. And "C" level work won't get you passed on the CPNE either, you have to know what you are doing.

For the poster who keeps saying you just want to know what the "real" story is, contact Excelsior College--they're very upfront, they have nothing to lose if you don't enroll with them, and they will take the time to talk. At least that was my experience....

debRNo1 · Dec 5, 2003

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Originally posted by NursePerson

I have been told that OR, ILL, CA, And at least 3 hospitals in Ut. won't hire them due to some of the student not having enough or no clinical experence at all. Anyone else know about this?

____________________________________________________

WHO told you that ? I do beleive it is probably just ANOTHER myth about the program. :nono:

There are so many rumors and myths that it really could discourage you from applying to or completing the progam. I suggest contacting Excelsior for any and all questions. Their answers should be the final answers to any and all debates. There are study groups available and nurse educators to answer your questions. As an independant student you need to take full advantage of every resource available.

DONT LISTEN TO THE RUMORS and keep on taking your exams.

Both traditional and nontraditional nursing graduates take the same exam for our RN licsenses. I didnt have trouble when I began my search for a job in a hospital (with LTC experience only and my EXCELSIOR degree) in fact one of the nurse educators where I "chose" to work was impressed because she knew of the program and whats involved.

During my weekend, out of the 6 who tested 2 (who were obviously unprepared) failed. Thats about 66-67 % pass rate ?

I would say thats about average and depends on the students preparation.

A big rumor when I tested was:o "dont go to NY~"they" are failing everybody there" I went and defied the rumor but know of students flying out of NY to test elsewhere. Another debate was about the degree of the bed during an abd. assessment and what area do I get ?? It seemed as if the instructor would whip out a measuring device to check the degree of thebed

:confused: I sweated this one out because I couldnt lay my lady down the way she was breathing and the instuctor was with me on that one~not an issue at all. You must show that you can safely and competantly provide nursing care to a patient.

Maybe someone who cannot get hired due to lack of experience has NOTHING to do with their degree at all. I was an experienced LPN and basic nursing/pt care wasnt an issue for me. If a student is lacking basic nursing knowledge and hasnt EVER touched a patient ~or~ If you are someone who cannot move on without a professor or instructor confirming the right answer~maybe try a traditional program.

Another problem is if you are unable to take on the Excelsior way as your way, you must follow their directions and do things the way they have them laid out without deviation. I studied the exam itself as well as preparing for it. I knew exactly what to expect and exactly what was expected of me and I passed with no repeats. :roll

Good luck to all who are currently testing............................

Sheri257 · Dec 5, 2003

Originally posted by debRNo1
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Originally posted by NursePerson
I have been told that OR, ILL, CA, And at least 3 hospitals in Ut. won't hire them due to some of the student not having enough or no clinical experence at all. Anyone else know about this?
____________________________________________________
WHO told you that ? I do beleive it is probably just ANOTHER myth about the program.
There are so many rumors and myths that it really could discourage you from applying to or completing the progam. I suggest contacting Excelsior for any and all questions. Their answers should be the final answers to any and all debates.

I realize that you support Excelsior, but I completely disagree that a prospective nursing student should rely solely upon Excelsior for information.

Doubts have been raised about this program, and there is some basis for those doubts. A student may want to consider the following before investing time and money in any school.

Consider the facts: This is not "rumor."

The California Nursing Board did find that some states do not accept Excelsior or, they only accept Excelsior under certain conditions.

California Nursing Board minutes from January, 2003. Page 7

http://www.rn.ca.gov/pdf/elcmin%2001-03.pdf

"In order to acquire more information about Excelsior College Nursing Program, the board researched other states and learned the following:

1) Georgia and Vermont do not accept graduates from Excelsior

2) Florida requires graduates to have been Licensed Practical Nurses

3) Illinois will accept the Excelsior graduate only after being licensed as a registered nurse in another state for 2 years

4) Washington only accepts Licensed Practical Nurses with documentation of at least 200 hours of supervised experience (preceptorship) in the role of RN."

California Nursing Board minutes from June, 2003. Page 9

http://www.rn.ca.gov/pdf/brdmins%206-03.pdf

"BRN staff conducted a review of the materials provided by Excelsior College to determine compliance with Board rules and regulations. The program was in non-compliance with Board rules and regulations in 14 areas ...

The most significant non-compliance areas are related to the lack of any clinical instruction or supervision in the program."

This why California is now requiring that Excelsior graduates document substantial clinical experience:

http://www.rn.ca.gov/news/news.htm

BTW, a 67 percent pass rate (which is what you mentioned as the average for Excelsior graduates you know) is not acceptable in California. If a school has less than a 70 percent pass rate for two years, they risk loss of accreditation.

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Dec 5, 2003

Originally posted by lizz
I realize that you support Excelsior, but I completely disagree that a propspective nursing student should rely solely upon Excelsior for information.

Doubts have been raised about this program, and there is some basis for those doubts. A student may want to consider the following before investing time and money in any school.

Let's look at some facts. The California Nursing Board did find that some states do not accept Excelsior or, they only accept Excelsior under certain conditions.

California Nursing Board minutes from January, 2003. Page 7

http://www.rn.ca.gov/pdf/elcmin%2001-03.pdf

"In order to acquire more information about Excelsior College Nursing Program, the board researched other states and learned the following:

1) Georgia and Vermont do not accept graduates from Excelsior
2) Florida requires graduates to have been Licensed Practical Nurses
3) Illinois will accept the Excelsior graduate only after being licensed as a registered nurse in another state for 2 years
4) Washington only accepts Licensed Practical Nurses with documentation of at least 200 hours of supervised experience (preceptorship) in the role of RN."

California Nursing Board minutes from June, 2003. Page 9

http://www.rn.ca.gov/pdf/brdmins%206-03.pdf

"BRN staff conducted a review of the materials provided by Excelsior College to determine compliance with Board rules and regulations. The program was in non-compliance with Board rules and regulations in 14 areas ...

The most significant non-compliance areas are related to the lack of any clinical instruction or supervision in the program."

This why California is now requiring that Excelsior graduates have clinical experience.

BTW, a 67 percent pass rate is not acceptable in California. If a school has less than a 70 percent pass rate for two years, they risk loss of accreditation.

The 66% pass rate is for the CPNE- one component (the clinical component) of the nursing program- NOT the pass rate of the entire program. CA might not accept this, but the NLN obviously does, as that's who Excelsior receives their accreditation from. As for KY, I checked with my BON before applying to Excelsior, and not only am I eligible to sit for the boards as soon as I get my ATT letter without having to do more clinicals, but I got a scholarship from the BON to help with the costs. As far as RN preceptorship- I will be required to do that anyway where I work. I've known lots of Excelsior RNs, and I wouldn't have even considered switching to their program from the traditional one I was in if I didn't see all those intelligent, hard-working RN grads that really knew their stuff.

Sheri257 · Dec 5, 2003

Originally posted by lgflamini
I've known lots of Excelsior RNs, and I wouldn't have even considered switching to their program from the traditional one I was in if I didn't see all those intelligent, hard-working RN grads that really knew their stuff.

If Excelsior works for you, that's fine. I just object to people saying that all issues raised about this program are "rumor and myth."

That's simply not true, as the above mentioned documents demonstrate.

Personally, I would not want to graduate from any school where these kinds of issues have been raised about their reputation.

The fact is, there are some hospitals who won't hire Excelsior graduates, just as there are some states that won't license them.

Will Excelsior graduates find work elsewhere? Probably. But I personally wouldn't want it on my resume.

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Dec 5, 2003

Originally posted by lizz
If Excelsior works for you, that's fine. I just object to people saying that all issues raised about this program are "rumor and myth."
Will Excelsior graduates find work elsewhere? Probably. But I personally wouldn't want it on my resume.

That's why I took the initiative to call my own BON before I considered signing up- I figured they would be who I would have to answer to, so I wanted to get it from the horse's mouth.

As far as the resume comment- I choose to think of it differently: what looks better on my own resume- Lgflamini, LPN or Lgflamini, RN. Hmmm...I think I'll go with the RN. I'm not going to get in a distance/traditional debate- it's a personal choice for anyone. But, I'm really happy with them, I'm learning a lot through them, and I can still work while I further my education. I love their flexibility, too. There are those out there who need this kind of flexibility, and if their BON approves of them getting their education this way, why knock it?

Sheri257 · Dec 5, 2003

Originally posted by lgflamini
There are those out there who need this kind of flexibility, and if their BON approves of them getting their education this way, why knock it?

I certainly agree with a lot of what you've said. But here's my concern:

Look at the original post this thread. Excelsior's reputation is shot. The damage has already been done.

It's one thing when a few states said they wouldn't take Excelsior. But when California said there was major a problem, and they made a big deal out of it --- threating to pull their accreditation all together --- a lot of people took notice.

California is trend setting state. Once they said Excelsior isn't up to par, let's face it --- that label is going to stick for a long time, regardless of whatever they have done to fix it.

IMHO, it doesn't matter how much people argue until they're blue in the face. If you're a hospital administrator, and you have a choice between hiring an Excelsior graduate versus someone trained in a school with no issues --- who do you think they'll hire?

In the end, it may not matter much with the current shortage, but it's still a gamble I wouldn't want to take on my future.

I personally would want to be in demand with lots of options. I wouldn't want anyone fostering any doubts about my training or anything else, for that matter.

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Dec 6, 2003

Originally posted by lizz

California is trend setting state. Once they said Excelsior isn't up to par, let's face it --- that label is going to stick for a long time, regardless of whatever they have done to fix it.

IMHO, it doesn't matter how much people argue until they're blue in the face. If you're a hospital administrator, and you have a choice between hiring an Excelsior graduate versus someone trained in a school with no issues --- who do you think they'll hire?

In the end, it may not matter much with the current shortage, but it's still a gamble I wouldn't want to take on my future.

I personally would want to be in demand with lots of options. I wouldn't want anyone fostering any doubts about my training or anything else, for that matter.

It's not a gamble for me at all. My resume will show (if I choose to go somewhere else) that I worked at one of the best "trend-setting" teaching hospitals in the area. If they look at my resume, they're not going to be thinking about California as much as my work experience where I currently work- which has had a hand in everything from the Abiocor to hand transplants, new cancer drugs, facial prostheses, orthopedic appliances, etc. And as for my administrators- they're giving me tuition reimbursement, so I don't think they have a problem with Excelsior, either.

Now, if I lived in California and I didn't sign up before the deadline set for the changes made, then I might be worried. But there are those out there who are managing to work around that system as well.

It's not a generic education by any means. As someone who breezed through another degree and LPN school, I can tell you I am not breezing through Excelsior. The school is NLN accredited- that says a lot for me. And they have a very high NCLEX pass rate. That also says a lot for me. As far as clinical experience, I've got most of that covered in 6 years of being an LPN on a Med/Surg floor, and will do a six week preceptorship after I get my ATT letter. I also have the option to do an externship before I'm done as well. Now, California might have a narrower scope of practice for LPNs than KY does. If it is narrow, I can kind of see where CA might be coming from. But I've also seen some posts from CA Excelsior grads that matriculated just fine. And the ones in my 4 study groups from CA already have jobs and they're in the clear.

And CA is trendsetting, but why don't we have nurse-to-patient ratios down here? If administrators everywhere else were watching CA with such a close eye- I'd think that would be where their gaze was. A crazed, fearful gaze- but that's where their attn would be nonetheless, don't you think?

Sheri257 · Dec 6, 2003

Originally posted by lgflamini
Now, if I lived in California and I didn't sign up before the deadline set for the changes made, then I might be worried. But there are those out there who are managing to work around that system as well.

There are always people who are trying to work around the requirements. And, once again, if you're comfortable with Excelsior, by all means go for it. But you might want to check out some older threads, not only on this board but other nurse message boards as well.

There are hospitals (not just in California) that won't hire Excelsior grads regardless of whether they're licensed in their home state.

Just as an example, a hospital fired an Excelsior grad who endangered patient safety and, consequently, the hospital adopted a policy not to hire anymore Excelsior graduates.

Regardless of any experience you or any other Excelsior grad might have, I sincerely doubt that it would help you get a job at that hospital. Not to mention other hospitals that have adopted the same policy.

As one poster pointed out, it's not like the hospitals advertise that they won't accept Excelsior grads. They simply don't hire them.

This is what I meant by the reputation problem, which was greatly worsened by the California controversy.

You may be right and it may not be a big issue in your area. But you may want to call your local hospitals and find out for sure if they do, in fact, hire Excelsior grads.

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Dec 6, 2003

Originally posted by lizz
You may be right and it may not be a big issue in your area. But you may want to call your local hospitals and find out for sure if they do, in fact, hire Excelsior grads.

Don't have to call- a good 25% of the Excelsior grads I met were at other hospitals in the area where I picked up agency hours.