Euthanasia! your opinions needed please

[81shelbay]

Hi there I am a 3rd year nursing student. Our class at university have been asked to compile a debate for and against euthanasia/assisted suicide, our class has been divided into two groups and I have been placed in the group for. I have been appointed as one of the main speakers to argue our case and this is where I ask for your help. I would be very grateful if anyone can post their opinions on this matter and their reasons why? It can be for or against but because I am on the for team I would love to see if anyone agrees with it. I personally agree with some aspects of it but I am on the fence due to it being such a sensitive issue. The results from this post will be used in the debate but just the numbers of people not details etc... So opinions are very welcome thank you for reading, much appreciated.

[Roy Hanson]

death is never discussed because in our Victorian/PC thinking, its not positive. Someone with ALZ, terminal cancer should be allowed to chose THEIR way. AlZ is the longest funeral..its dying backwards. Sometimes death is NOT peaceful or comfortable. Get used to it. Animals separate themselves from the herd for death.

[Sensibility, BSN, RN]

There is not an easy answer to this question. 100 years ago, people with head trauma, certain cancers, and other dilbilitating diseases died naturally. Now we can save them through the use of our technological advancement such as Gtubes, intubation, and chemo. Because we can, though, should we?

The issue is: who will make the decision to stop medical treatment? What criteria will be used? We now have government health care. Imagine being say 65 years old and being told that that the criteria is age and nothing will be done to save you because that is what someone decided was the cut off. What about things like hip replacements? Already, it is very difficult to get government funding to agree to pay for this. Imagine being again 65 and being told that the cut off is age. You will die a slow painful death not being able to get around.

On the other hand, there are several children that I follow online who have brain injuries. They have no affect. They barely respond to their surroundings. I have cared for at least 4 children such as this in their homes. They have zero ability to respond to their parents. They lie there and seize all day long. They are being kept alive. We are talking children who grow up into vegetative adults. What if the criteria is level of consciousness? Alzheimer's patients could be euthanized. That could be your mama. How would you feel if they said that the mandatory law is to euthanize your mother.

[CHESSIE]

There is not an easy answer to this question. 100 years ago, people with head trauma, certain cancers, and other dilbilitating diseases died naturally. Now we can save them through the use of our technological advancement such as Gtubes, intubation, and chemo. Because we can, though, should we?

The issue is: who will make the decision to stop medical treatment? What criteria will be used? We now have government health care. Imagine being say 65 years old and being told that that the criteria is age and nothing will be done to save you because that is what someone decided was the cut off. What about things like hip replacements? Already, it is very difficult to get government funding to agree to pay for this. Imagine being again 65 and being told that the cut off is age. You will die a slow painful death not being able to get around.

On the other hand, there are several children that I follow online who have brain injuries. They have no affect. They barely respond to their surroundings. I have cared for at least 4 children such as this in their homes. They have zero ability to respond to their parents. They lie there and seize all day long. They are being kept alive. We are talking children who grow up into vegetative adults. What if the criteria is level of consciousness? Alzheimer's patients could be euthanized. That could be your mama. How would you feel if they said that the mandatory law is to euthanize your mother.

The PAS is not about number of years, it is about a person's autonomy. I have a Medical Directive, indicating that should I become terminally ill, with no hope of recovery, or so afflicted with dementia, that I am a mere shell of my former self, or have a debilitating illness from which there is no hope of recovery I would elect to have PAS. Since PAS is illegal in my state, so far, although it will be on the ballot in our next election. I would elect to have all treatment, including nourishment, IVs, ceased, and be allowed to die. If pain was involved in my illness I want enough pain medication given to alleviate all discomfort, even if this shortens my life. I have spoken to my husband and daughters and they know my wishes and would advocate for me, should I be unable to do so, for myself. This is my right as a rational human being. I am nearly 80, so I have lived a long and productive life. I am a "mama" whose children know my wishes.

In the cases of the "vegetative children who will become vegetative adults," for whom you cared, I hope that the parents should be able to decide what was in their children's best interest and that you would advocate for those parents, even if their opinion differed from yours.

[Libby1987]

The PAS is not about number of years, it is about a person's autonomy. I have a Medical Directive, indicating that should I become terminally ill, with no hope of recovery, or so afflicted with dementia, that I am a mere shell of my former self, or have a debilitating illness from which there is no hope of recovery I would elect to have PAS. Since PAS is illegal in my state, so far, although it will be on the ballot in our next election. I would elect to have all treatment, including nourishment, IVs, ceased, and be allowed to die. If pain was involved in my illness I want enough pain medication given to alleviate all discomfort, even if this shortens my life. I have spoken to my husband and daughters and they know my wishes and would advocate for me, should I be unable to do so, for myself. This is my right as a rational human being. I am nearly 80, so I have lived a long and productive life. I am a "mama" whose children know my wishes.

In the cases of the "vegetative children who will become vegetative adults," for whom you cared, I hope that the parents should be able to decide what was in their children's best interest and that you would advocate for those parents, even if their opinion differed from yours.

The thing that bothers me in your wishes is that you won't necessarily be able to get enough medication to alleviate all discomfort, even reasonably so, if you don't qualify for a level of care where you have a physician willing and able to prescribe whatever it takes to make dying comfortable.

With the changes in what conditions qualify for hospice I have literally, in the past year, jumped up and down and threw things to get hospice to admit a patient that kept being released from the ER with what we would learn was actually terminal agitation. I sat at the kitchen table and watched the poor thing come undone, sent to the ER with a plan to release to Hospice. Mind you this patient was emaciated and dehydrated, unable to take in nutrition and fluids due to reasons none of which qualified for hospitalization or hospice. They'd hydrate, release and repeat. We went round a couple of times with this poor person. I was helpless. The MD couldn't prescribe what it'd take to manage the agitation to allow death at home and the conditions didn't meet qualifying criteria. Palliative care? I wish, but it's only available as Hospice in our community if you don't qualify for an inpatient stay.

Hospice did finally admit, after digging thru records for a couple of days and finding a qualifying diagnosis that apparently never came up with all of the recent medical encounters. Died the next day.

There wasn't really anyone who did anything wrong, by the way, it was just lousy circumstances.

[CHESSIE]

The thing that bothers me in your wishes is that you won't necessarily be able to get enough medication to alleviate all discomfort, even reasonably so, if you don't qualify for a level of care where you have a physician willing and able to prescribe whatever it takes to make dying comfortable.

With the changes in what conditions qualify for hospice I have literally, in the past year, jumped up and down and threw things to get hospice to admit a patient that kept being released from the ER with what we would learn was actually terminal agitation. I sat at the kitchen table and watched the poor thing come undone, sent to the ER with a plan to release to Hospice. Mind you this patient was emaciated and dehydrated, unable to take in nutrition and fluids due to reasons none of which qualified for hospitalization or hospice. They'd hydrate, release and repeat. We went round a couple of times with this poor person. I was helpless. The MD couldn't prescribe what it'd take to manage the agitation to allow death at home and the conditions didn't meet qualifying criteria. Palliative care? I wish, but it's only available as Hospice in our community if you don't qualify for an inpatient stay.

Hospice did finally admit, after digging thru records for a couple of days and finding a qualifying diagnosis that apparently never came up with all of the recent medical encounters. Died the next day.

There wasn't really anyone who did anything wrong, by the way, it was just lousy circumstances.

That is exactly why I hope that PAS is the law of the land and not in just a few select states. We all need to make choices regarding end of life care. I know some people who want "everything done," an others, like myself who may not, depending upon the circumstances.

In our area, hospice is easier to access than it, apparently is in your area, but here, hospice is not a facility, it is "at home care." The burden is on the family, with a hospice nurse or volunteer coming into the home for one or two hours. We were nearly to the point where we would have a designated facility, but the neighbors petitioned and this was no longer feasible.

Everyone should be able to make their own choice, in this matter. My choice would be to not burden my family with my end of life care, with the exception of two hours a day respite. They may not feel that this was a burden, but I would feel that it was an undue burden.

[AshBuggin]

I firmly believe that a patient who has a substantial decline or lack of quality of life and fits the criteria set forth by their state regarding physician assisted suicide should be able to have the right to die. In America, we eat our rights for breakfast lunch and dinner-we love our rights. The right to die on your own terms in order to maintain what little dignity you may or may not have left is, in my opinion immensely important. A terminal patient who is given time isn't guaranteed to have a quality of life during their last remaining months or weeks. Not having control over your life due to a terminal illness is hard enough but having to suffer with no peace or ounce of joy in sight is a hopeless and an unnecessary burden to have to bare.

[AshBuggin]

There is not an easy answer to this question. 100 years ago, people with head trauma, certain cancers, and other dilbilitating diseases died naturally. Now we can save them through the use of our technological advancement such as Gtubes, intubation, and chemo. Because we can, though, should we?

The issue is: who will make the decision to stop medical treatment? What criteria will be used? We now have government health care. Imagine being say 65 years old and being told that that the criteria is age and nothing will be done to save you because that is what someone decided was the cut off. What about things like hip replacements? Already, it is very difficult to get government funding to agree to pay for this. Imagine being again 65 and being told that the cut off is age. You will die a slow painful death not being able to get around.

On the other hand, there are several children that I follow online who have brain injuries. They have no affect. They barely respond to their surroundings. I have cared for at least 4 children such as this in their homes. They have zero ability to respond to their parents. They lie there and seize all day long. They are being kept alive. We are talking children who grow up into vegetative adults. What if the criteria is level of consciousness? Alzheimer's patients could be euthanized. That could be your mama. How would you feel if they said that the mandatory law is to euthanize your mother.

Ummm.. PAS is not an order by a physician saying you have to die. Please do some research before posting your opinion based on your assumption of what PAS is and does. This isn't a Terri Schiavo situation. We are not discussing unplugging someone's life support- that isn't what PAS is. Making the decision to discontinue life sustaining treatment (legal in every state ) is not the same as electing to have a physician prescribe you a cocktail so that you can take control over when you die from an illness that has already taken away your quality of life. Emphasis on Quality of life. PAS is a decision that is made autonomously by a patient.

This isn't about "that could be your mama" please stop. No one is making anything mandatory. It's absurd that you think this could happen.Physicians are not taking it upon themselves to end the life of their patients.

Please understand the difference between declination of life sustaining treatment and PAS as they are not even close to being the same thing.

[maccamax]

I am 82 . 50 Years as a Registered Nurse ( retired ) Did both Psychiatric & General as was the system in earlier days in Australia .

I believe chosen death is every person's right when all hope of a reasonable quality of life is impossible.

Who administers . You do it yourself where possible , if not , there is no trouble finding RN's who would reduce or stop suffering with the proper "will" like documentation. as I get older my only fear re ending the cycle of life is >> How will it end , in terrible suffering or peacefully with dignity.

None of us are getting out of this world alive so work toward improving the end as much as any other part of our time here.

[YahallaWheeler]

I am a firm believer in a person's right to choose what happens with their bodies, in any health care setting. I see the conundrum from an oath to do no harm standpoint, as well as from a life insurance/financial standpoint. However, taking the bureaucracy out of the equation, I am all for a person being able to choose the time and circumstances surrounding their departure from mortality.

[Conqueror+, BSN, RN]

Well I am in the "if you cannot create life you have no business taking it" camp. As a hospice nurse I see so many ill patients pressured into signing DNR's and other legal papers by their "loved ones" that I could never support it anyway.

[littlelimabean01, LPN]

Hospice in my state of Louisiana , which is in general not a liberal state. Hospice is easily accessible. You do not need to be on deaths doorstep to be admitted. The philosophy of hospice here is it does not mean you are giving up on life, they are a wonderful organization that will support any method of care as long as it provides comfort. If chemo is a means of making the patient comfortable or to promote a quality of life than go for it. Hospice, is not only at home care, being admitted to a hospice facility, but you can have hospice rather you are at an ALF, LTC it does not matter they will step in if you have a diagnoses that ultimately leads to death i.e., Alzheimers. As I work in LTC, I have residents who are on hospice. They do what ever the family wants for that patient. I just wish that those who admit their loved one to hospice that they would choose to stop silly medications that essentially got the patient in that state to begin with. The cholesterol lowering meds, BP lowering meds, anti-Alzheimer meds, vitamin supplements. Ultimately you end up crushing these medications and of course making that orange or greenish colored apple sauce concoction. I feel like these meds are useless at this point and by giving them I feel like I am only bothering my patient that was resting quietly before I enter to beg them to take these medications. I understand these are extremely hard decisions for families to make and I will always follow their wishes and doctors orders. Ultimately, all meds end up being D/C'd and only ones that promote comfort are given because their loved one has lost their ability to swallow and we then begin giving those meds slowly sub-lingual to prevent choking since they can no longer swallow. I have only been at my facility for 1 month and now am treating my 2nd resident that has followed this exact same path. God Bless all of those who have to make these decisions and their loved ones.

[joanna73, BSN, RN]

I wrote a paper for Ethics during fourth year, pro euthanasia. However, in order to successfully debate your case, you'll need to understand the pros and cons of the argument and choose which side you're on.

What does the evidence based literature say? That's where you should begin your research.

Personally, when my quality of life is gone, I'm out. Suffering in pain, or existing on a tube feed is not for me.