Ethical question...what would you do?

Mermaid4 · Aug 19, 2004

To the CEO, whom I agree with regarding her (or his) post, did you ever take a facility generated pen home? Even by mistake? Same thing....

Iron Angel · Aug 20, 2004

I've always carried my own supply of medications wherever I worked. You never know who has been into the meds in the common supply box, or any other source for that matter. This person needs to just get over it and buy her own supply of meds and stop taking the patient's.

freelancer · Aug 20, 2004

What that nurse did was outright unethical and shameful. :angryfire For one thing, in-patients deposit their stuff to the nursing station because they know that in that way their valuables are secure. Now for someone, especially a "trusted" nurse to take sometthing from his/her client w/o the knowledge of the patient is a clear case of breach of trust. But cying out for "HELP!!! The nurse is stealing something from the patient!!!" is as much unethical. We ethical standards to follow. And going around accusing a coleague is very inappropriate. What you should do is inform the supervisor of that nurse about her behaviour... Don't tell it to anybody other than the supervisor!!! If you do, you'll find yourself suspended the next day!!!

diannenurse · Aug 22, 2004

Hi everyone!
I'm a nursing student and brand new LPN working for the VA hospital. I am training with an LPN right now and I'm a little concerned. I have watched two nights now when the LPN I was working with took an extra strength Tylenol out of a patient's medication drawer for herself. It wasn't a narcotic, but I'm still concerned. I work in the nursing home area where there isn't a Pixis; just a medication cart with drawers for each patient. The LPN is tight with the charge nurse. Would you say something? HELP!

In my opinion, this behavior is inappropriate and unprofessional. It is a serious boundary issue. The nurse should be responsible to supply her own 'pain medication' if her symptoms are that severe. If a headache or unusual occurrence happens at work where tylenol may be necessary, the charge nurse should approve and dispense to the floor nurse a tylenol from the stock supply.

Even though you are a new nurse, you need to keep your professional ethics and boundaries intact. If you are concerned enough to mention this in the nurse online, you must be seriously concerned about your coworker's behavior. If this nurse helps herself to patient's medications in front of you....what may she be taking when no one is observing. This is not behavior that should be tolerated and I would find a way to professionally discuss this with the supervisor. You must do what is RIGHT....You are a professional nurse and should not be making ethical decisions based on fear that you will 'rock the boat' or upset a coworker!!!

Be true to yourself. Respectfully, Dianne

505girl · Apr 9, 2005

I work(ed) as a pharmacy technician for 10 years, before getting my BSN...anyhow...if there is an in-house pharmacy, tell her/him to call them and I am sure they could oblige with some, instead of stealing from the patient. If not...I agree with the other posts...

I have seen so much other things worse taken, like Levaquin $, Zithromax $, Cipro (during the Anthrax scares), etc.

In my opinion, this behavior is inappropriate and unprofessional. It is a serious boundary issue. The nurse should be responsible to supply her own 'pain medication' if her symptoms are that severe. If a headache or unusual occurrence happens at work where tylenol may be necessary, the charge nurse should approve and dispense to the floor nurse a tylenol from the stock supply.
Even though you are a new nurse, you need to keep your professional ethics and boundaries intact. If you are concerned enough to mention this in the nurse online, you must be seriously concerned about your coworker's behavior. If this nurse helps herself to patient's medications in front of you....what may she be taking when no one is observing. This is not behavior that should be tolerated and I would find a way to professionally discuss this with the supervisor. You must do what is RIGHT....You are a professional nurse and should not be making ethical decisions based on fear that you will 'rock the boat' or upset a coworker!!!
Be true to yourself. Respectfully, Dianne

LPN1974, LPN · Apr 9, 2005

On my job we are allowed to take Tylenol if we need it and can give it to other staff if they need it, but that is all we're allowed to give out. Everything else is tightly controlled. Anything coming out of the nitepress has to be signed for.

I've been asked for everything from Dulcalax suppositories {YES!} to Valiums and everything in between such as Benadryl, but they don't get anything from me but Tylenol and it comes out of stock supply.

humglum, BSN, RN · Apr 9, 2005

I would never take a medication that was for a patient. I've taken tylenol out of floor stock, but that's it. We have a bottle of ibuprofen for our use, but we buy it (collectively).

I agree that its a pain to wait for a med replacement, and I certainly don't want to take time away from my kids to schlep all the way over to the pharmacy.

Town & Country · Apr 9, 2005

My point is that I am sick of inexpirenced GNs or nursing students (I am a nursing student) bash expirenced RNs/LPNs. Let me give you an example of what I have heard from fellow students in the past week: "OMG, that nurse is such an idiot (adult MICU RN) she doesn't even know that a pediatric pt is blah blah blah" and so on. If one is new they do not know it all, so bashing someone with expirence for a questionable practice (taking the tylenol) may backfire one you. Obviously tylenol LPN was probably wrong but maybe she's been there for 20yrs and knows something this student does not. We have a lot to learn from our preceptors and more expirenced coworkers. Lets not go reporting them left and right b/c it's not what we were taught in nursing school! I don't not want to personally attack the OP, so I"m not going to say anymore. I am just not understanding this student "holyer (sp) than thou" attitude.....please lets have some faith in those that have been there long before us! (ps. diverting meds is obviously wrong but having a simple one to one with the LPN may have cleared things up quickly-maybe the floor stock was out, maybe her only other choice was to leave the OP alone for the night unless she got some relief). I have never seen this in any other profession and it really upsets me.

Couldn't have said it better myself...........

LPN1974, LPN · Apr 10, 2005

Couldn't have said it better myself...........

And, too, Tylenol is not going to hurt anything or anybody. It's not like she was caught taking an Oxycontin or a morphine tablet or Demerol shot.

Just because she took two tylenol does not make her a drug addict, and I would be careful about making assumptions to the contrary.

HOWever, this just shows that we must all be careful around students.

They are very idealistic and haven't yet been indoctrinated to the real world.

Now before I get flamed, don't anybody go assuming I condone taking drugs, or that in the "real world" of nursing that I think it is ok to do so. I do NOT.

Keep it where it IS......it was 2 TYLENOL. Period.

AND of course, the nurse could have avoided any suspicions on her behavior by getting her tylenol out of floor stock. She SHOULD have done it that way, but like another poster said, "We don't know her reason why she didn't."

pmchap · Apr 10, 2005

At my facility, even if it is floor stock you can get fired. Last year a nurse on a M/S floor took a swig of Maalox, was seen by the charge nurse and she got busted and then fired the next day. Stealing is stealing.

How tight is your facility? Ward/Floor stock is relatively available - and from someone who has, has helped give and watched DONs to the same - if a facility can't afford a couple nonscripted analgesia to help staff something is wrong. I would rather a staff member take something and stafyfor the shift then go home sick/in pain or with a headache and have the others cover the shortfall. A couple of tablets has got to be cheaper than a sick shift....

pmchap · Apr 10, 2005

ERslave,
"FYI: whoever signs for the medicines (especially narcotics), should be the one to put them in the cart." What you just said made a light go off for me. When I informed the RN that the narcotic was off, she freaked out about it as much as I did. She angrily stated that she should have done it herself instead of letting me do it. I thought she was just angry...I had no idea that the one who signs should be responsible in putting them up. Wow, does this mean she could get into trouble? I hope not, she's a very nice nurse.

She could get in trouble - signing something is sayingthat you have done it..... you wouldn't signoff on care for a patient unless you did it, you wouldn't sign a ed chart unless you gave it - same thing here - if you sign it then either you are doing it or supervising someone do it.

NoCrumping · Apr 10, 2005

I am with Ted. I never take from patient's drawers, just from floor stock or ask the pharmacy for an ibu or tylenol. It is stealing from patients to remove meds from their drawers for personal use.

Well, a facility where I worked openly welcomed us to the floor stock of the usual OTC's. Out of the patients drawer? A lil gauche. But rat on her? NO. I wouldnt, but ya know what? I think a question like this (where it involves no harm to a pt. , and this is not a narcotic) varies greatly on who the person is. If it is in you to blow the whistle, then it is. If its not, its not. If your posting about it, then its obviously in you.:uhoh21: Good luck, if you do, cause your work life will not be too pleasant, I can almost guarantee.