Entitled Generation

ZootRN · Feb 8, 2008

It's just a suggestion, and I am going to throw it out there at the risk of getting flamed, but why would a facility risk the chance of 'burning out' a new nurse as soon as they graduate by making them "pay their dues" just because other people had to?

mm, because thy don't really care? In another 6 months there will be another graduating class, means another bunch of cheap, naive and malleable nurses that can be bullied with the notion "this is the way it is, so take it or leave it".

cloister · Feb 8, 2008

In the ICU I work in, there are several of us with 20+ years experience who actually LIKE nights and will probably stay there forever. We hire most new staff to nights, but occasionally days has openings and a new hire gets it. There's enough of a revolving door there that most folks who want days get there generally within 1-3 years.

You couldn't run fast enough to give me days!

I tell our younger nurses this: If you can stand the schedule, if your body can take it, nights is a good place to be. There are fewer people standing in line for the balloon pumps, CVVHDs, really sick patients, and those of us with experience are happy to let you take the challenging assignment and act as your backup should it all hit the fan. We have some really sharp young nurses on the night shift, and we'd like to see them advance, stay with us, and make the unit a great place to receive care.

As for holidays, our manager keeps up with what everyone works year to year and you get your first choice off for a holiday. If there is low census, a lottery goes into effect and the name chosen out of a hat gets it off. Some of our new folks got chosen this year, and I was happy for them.

Our shift differential is $4.00/hr, by the way, which makes a real difference in a paycheck!

Most of our young nurses understand that they'll be on nights for a while, and with few exceptions, they don't complin. We try to make it worth their while and give them a good experience.

Mudwoman · Feb 8, 2008

Part of the problem in LTC is that you guys are behind the times with your 8 hour shifts. If I work nights at the hospital, I have the same nights and I don't have to work the weekends unless I want to do the weekend warrior thing----3 nights a week and I'm done. If I work days, I have to work every other weekend and we all have a rotating schedule for holidays. I applied to the LTC facility close to my house. It is a really nice place and they are begging for nurses. I would start on nights 11-7, but might have to switch to 3-11 if need be here and there. I would have to work every weekend and at first every holiday, AND I would make $5.50 per hour less than I'm making now. GET REAL. Hospitals offer better money and a better deal. Until you guys update your model, you are going to get the response you are getting.

I'm not one of the "entitled". I've been nursing a long time and am an old woman.

Pediatric Critical Care Columnist · Feb 8, 2008

In Alberta in unionized facilities (acute care and many LTC) there are very few "day" and "night" positions. The norm is rotating shifts, alternating weekends and alternating major holidays. If the shift pattern is 8 hours, the positions are posted as "Day-Evening" or "Day-Night" with no more than 3/5 of the shifts being evenings or nights. If a person wants a permanent evening or night position they may request it, or they may apply for a posting with a permanent night schedule (this is included in the psoting as "information only", meaning that management can change it if they want to)... but the employer cannot force anyone to work permanent evenings or nights.

Having said that, our unit is one of a handful that has a letter of understanding from the union that as a recruitment and retention measure, our unit may self-schedule rather than following a set rotation. Of course that makes our unit very attractive to people who don't want nights, wekends or holidays, and they figure they can get away with scheduling themselves weekday days. When it's time to negotiate for the shifts that are short, they smugly sit on their hands expecting that someone else will move their schedule around to cover the shortfalls (a requirement for being permitted to self schedule is that you will try to fill gaps wherever possible). Then the manager gets the schedule, makes the required arbitrary changes and the inevitable ensues. The whining is unbelievable sometimes. "But my boyfriend and I were going to go away that weekend (six months from now) and now I have to work Friday night. Me... a NIGHT! No fair!" Our staffroom bulletin board is papered with lists of shifts people have decided they no longer want to work, or were moved to without their assent. Many of them say "will trade my nights for your days".

Then there is the matter of our specialty teams (transport, Berlin Heart, ECMO and CRRT). There are those who believe their shiny new degree trumps my nearly 11 years of critical care experience when it comes to openings on the teams. This attitude lately has been fostered by management, who has selected a good number of very junior staff for the teams and patted those of us with experience and strong clinical skills on the head and said it wasn't personal, it was all about retention. Half of the most recent crop of turned-away senior staffers have left and taken their combined 70+ years of hard work and knowledge with them. One of our seniors who stayed was so angry about the whole thing that although she can step in and change the effluent bag on the Prisma pump if the specialty team nurse is busy, she stands back and says, "I'm not qualified". Of course, in the end, all this will do is make our environment even more poisonous. Right now, I'm out of solutions.

nurseinlimbo · Feb 9, 2008

I am shocked that nobody has mentioned patient safety in this discussion. As a soon-to-be new grad (who is 45 years old for what it's worth) I certainly would not want to work perm nights as a new grad nurse because I am not nearly arrogant enough to think that I will know it all when I graduate. At least initially I will be looking to work during a day shift so that I can continue my education/orientation during a shift where there is plenty of support available to me should I need it.
It's just a suggestion, and I am going to throw it out there at the risk of getting flamed, but why would a facility risk the chance of 'burning out' a new nurse as soon as they graduate by making them "pay their dues" just because other people had to? It doesn't make any sense to me. Nurses are overworked, so let's make sure that new grads stay in the profession so that the burden can be spread once the new nurse gets up to speed. I am not suggesting that we should 'hand hold' new nurses, and yes, I know it's a big world out there, but I have also worked alongside new nurses for long enough to see them burn out within 6 months of graduating and leave the profession. This doesn't solve anything, it just perpetuates the problem.
Let's nurture our new nurses so that hopefully they will enjoy long and fulfilling careers instead of becoming disillusioned and leaving before they have an opportunity to fully understand and appreciate what a wonderful profession nursing is.
OK, I will get off my soapbox now and wish you all a good night!

Exactly!!! What are you learning on nights when it is mostly paperwork, no doctors orders to process or pharmacy to deal with and sometimes not busy with patients at all, depending on where you work.

I say Nurture not Torture and burn em out as fast as you churn em out!

Scrubby · Feb 9, 2008

[it's a different world in nursing than it was 20 years ago]

I am proud to be part of the new generation of nursing where there are anti discrimination laws, nursing is now regarded as a profession and we receive a higher education, not on the job training. I know plenty of grads who are more than happy to work rotating shifts, nights, weekends for the extra cash.

I however, am one of those nurses your talking about. When i started nursing I was forced to work a rotating shift, it took a huge toll on my health, i had to take sleeping pills when on night shift just so i could sleep. Some people are not suited to work shift work and why should they be denied employment? And BTW i knew this was expected, however i didn't know that it would affect me the way it did. I now work days, mon-fri and i absolutely love it. I have a life outside of work and i recommend it to anyone who hates shift work.

showbizrn · Feb 10, 2008

:onbch:

I am a nurse :nurse:

for better or for worse

I give quality patient care

WITHOUT putting the wear-and-tear

on my health and life

which means NO STRIFE

on workings ALL holidays, weekends and nights

can't afford to miss-out on life's special delights

of love, family, vacation and sex

THIS IS NURSING

not some witch's hex!:angryfire

[WIKI]Registered Nursing. The BEST profession healthcare dollars can buy![/WIKI]

*********************************

Nurses

young or old

are professionals

NO "Do as you're told."

Take the job

that best suits your needs

NOT following the mistakes

of past generations

Take your own lead!

:yeah:

KYnightnurse · Feb 12, 2008

Of course, I'm not so sure that it's just a case of a younger generation sense of entitlement that's the root of the problem. I've noticed a decline in society in general in regards to work ethic, interpersonal interactions, customer service, etc.
It's frustrating and sad.

Three cheers for you!! I couldn't agree with you more! My husband calls it the 'microwave generation'. They want everything now and they want it quick. I've read numerous articles about lack of social skills being due to all interaction being done digitally (e-mail, IM's, etc.).

The entitlement people at the hospital I work at went so far as to say (and I paraphrase): you've already had your kids and time off, now it's our turn.

Not a good way to start out in a new job.

KYnightnurse · Feb 12, 2008

Exactly!!! What are you learning on nights when it is mostly paperwork, no doctors orders to process or pharmacy to deal with and sometimes not busy with patients at all, depending on where you work.
I say Nurture not Torture and burn em out as fast as you churn em out!

I want to work nights at your hospital, where there is only paperwork and no docs, no no orders written, no pharmacy and not busy patients. *L*

ohioln, RN · Feb 21, 2008

I've worked 3 to 11 and nights most of my career. I'm now doing home care, so I work in the daytime, but when I first started out, I didn't expect to get the hours I wanted right away.

twotrees2 · Feb 22, 2008

I am a DON in along-term care facility, and I am having a difficult time finding both nurses and CNA's who are willing to work the evening night shift/weekends/holidays etc. The new graduates who apply all want a day job with no weekends or holidays. They think that I am crazy to expect them to work these other shifts. I had one girl even ask the day nurse--(who had worked 10 years on nights, and 6 years on the evening shift before finally getting the day position) why she thought she should have the day job, and not her. She had just passed her boards. When I started in nursing 20+ years ago, it was known that we would be working the night shift, weekends, and holidays, etc. It seems that this is the general rule for the younger generation now entering the health care field, or am I the only one who is experiencing this?

one thing i can say is whatever you do be honest and let them know its night only - or whatever- part of the retention problem i have seen is managers who "promise" days or whatever they want to get em in the door hoping they will stay once hired thinking they cant get a different job. however i have seen many leave because the "job of thier dreams" isn't what it looks like. a only way to offer them days ( and that is if noone else wishes the position from the ladder )would be to make a position for sorta your own "agency" type person -no specific weekends etc are required however neither are thier hours guaranteed - they pick up around your people and if staffing gets to where someone needs to stay home - they get off first - you will see when they dont have many day shifts available and need more money they will take more pm and nights hours as well as holiday and weekends,. and if not well - you haven't lost anything cause they aren't getting Benni's and the hours are not guaranteed but you may not have had to use as many agency hours simply due to they may pick some of the hours up. just a thought - i know doing this worked well for me ( i didnt want days i wanted pms) i often failed to have enough pm hours at the time and would often stay at least half night shifts to ease the staffing and earn more money. i also was more apt to pick up holidays and weekends once there for a while with them allowing this kind of scheduling cause we worked our schedule out well between me , staff and the scheduler, most of the staff would work around me to pick up hours where i couldn't so i could have the hours i was available and everyone was happy cause noone was forced to work OT. .

twotrees2 · Feb 22, 2008

I think that EVERYONE should be entitled to choose the lifestyle that works best for them and their family. If a facility can't offer them what they want, they should move on. There are plenty of nursing jobs out there that don't require night, holidays, or weekends.
As a new nurse I started on days and got a lot of flack from other nurses. I got comments like, "so when are you going to nights?", for months after I was hired, even after I explained that I asked for a day shift and was hired for one.
After years on days I decided to take a night position for the extra pay. I felt like a zombie the entire time. It tooks me months to feel right again after going back to days. Not everyone can work nights and maintain thier health/sanity. I don't think it has much to do with anyone having a sense of "entitlement", more like empowerment IMO.

i think it is everywhere on all shifts. i started pms- i am a pm person - best place to learn went to nights- didnt mind that so bad but much higher liability as less staff- then on days couldnt wait to get pms or nights caause to work with all the jackrabbit day crap - like management issues and eagle eyes glaring at your every move ( i dont mind people watching but thjere issomething about management eagle eyeing ya lol) - more doc and orders on days ( even though pms had thier share) - having to take time out for managements meetings that amounted to nothing anyways - i prefer to just get at my job and not worry about the politics of the stuff lol. and it sure seemed whatever you were dongmanagement would interfere and youd waste time dealing with thier crap. i do agree with the posters who say rotating shifts is nuts. its purely unsafe. my SIL does that at a factory - i cant imagine doing it myself and dont know ho wshe does. she says she ios glad her job isnt one where she has to think lol - and i am not trying to be offensive and say factory workers dont think - it is a different kind of "thinking" one where ya can do it no matter how sick you feel or how foggy your head is cause its the same routine over and over every day ( its nothing aginsit factory workers - i have been one but its easy to throw away a dented part or manage a mistke like say a washing machine doesnt have a start button cause you cant think stright and miss something when your tiured its another to make a mistake with a human. yikes.)