Enrolled nurses!

I have a few questions for all enrolled nurses or RNs who work with them:I'm interested in knowing the differences in scope of practice for enrolled nurses around Australia. I know some states are increasing the scope while others keep it very restricted. How does this make you feel and how does it affect your shift?Do you experience prejudice for being an EN? Do any RNs not like working with ENs?

It seems from the tone of your post that you are trying to incite some sort of argument of the value of the Enrolled Nurse amongst the Australian nurses here, though no arguments will arise as I believe Enrolled nurses, As you have been informed before., do not tend to lurk here...pity.

Many RN's in Australia were in fact EN's before they completed a nursing degree so the only 'feelings'' as an EN, were one of frustration at being an EN (before the course included medications) and not being able to assist the nursing team in this area.

RN's are thankful to have a nurse on the team rather than a personal care assistant. EN's are considered equal team members, though paid somewhat less.

They only belittling I have seen of an EN nurse is by some RN's from countries that do not practise equality for all, find it amusing and believe they have the right to order an Australian person around, though this is no longer possible due to the expansion of the EN role, which is now Australia wide, though the scope of practise to deal with IV's is dependent on the EN having a Diploma or Certificate 4- in all states.

I am in no way trying to incite an argument. I simply was opening a discussion point which I believe is what forums are all about. In US the RN vs LPN argument is a never ending war of hate and belittling- I was only wondering if this occurred in Australia also. I have also noticed not many ENs seem to use this site which I agree is a shame.

I can only speak for my work environment, where we have EN students, RN students, there does not seem to be any discussion about RN versus EN anymore since the EN role was expanded as the RN no longer has to cover what the EN nurse 'could not do'.

Though IV's can be a problem at this time, but then the professional EN will cover some other work aspect of the RN that is covering her/his IV and hence work together as a team.

Australia does have a culture of our own that we are trying hard to protect. We do not seem to have to prove ourselves better to each other is one of our beliefs.

'Its their problem' if someone makes statements of belittling or derogatory and 'build a bridge and get across it'!!! if someone feels the need to critisize.

Though if someone or race threatens this view/culture we get very defensive and want them to move on.

I am an EN (med and IV endorsed) and have been since last March. I work in a busy OR alongside lots of EN's and RN's. Guess what? Our job is exactly the same! The only difference is the pay and the level of knowledge needed to get to where we are. Have I run into discrimination, you bet but it's few and far between. Most of the RN's are happy to teach a newbie the role of scrub/scout even if I am an EN, after all they are having enough trouble keeping nurses in theatre......

Thanks for your reply! Some EN friends from Aus have told me that some RNs do not like the expanded level of scope ENs have been given ("why did i bother doing a longer course when the scope is so similar") then there are also RNs who don't like non iv endorsed ENs because they feel they have to do extra work. I guess the moral of the post is you can't ever please everyone and just do your job and do your best. Thanks!

I am an RN student and on many occasions I have been buddied up with EN's on clinical practice and as far as I know they are very knowledgable and do the exact same thing as an RN! I am now an EN because after 2 yrs into the RN course you can apply as an EN. I work at a nursing home and work alongside an RN and its more of team work!

hi, does anyone here know how is the process of applying to ahpra because i want to work as a nurse in Australia.. I am an RN and have more than 6 months of volunteer work but i haven't taken the ielts yet..

I am an EN (med and IV endorsed) and have been since last March. I work in a busy OR alongside lots of EN's and RN's. Guess what? Our job is exactly the same! The only difference is the pay and the level of knowledge needed to get to where we are. Have I run into discrimination, you bet but it's few and far between. Most of the RN's are happy to teach a newbie the role of scrub/scout even if I am an EN, after all they are having enough trouble keeping nurses in theatre......

I disagree that our roles in the OR is exactly the same. I work alongside EN's and have a huge level of respect for them as I do for all my colleagues.

But while our physical tasks in theatre are similar (scrubbing and scouting) the RN has a greater level of responsibility and accountability in the OR because it's our role to supervise and delegate to EN's. For example, if the surgical count is wrong then the greater proportion of blame will be given to the senior RN even if the EN was the scrub nurse. This is the same for anything that can go wrong, specimen mishandled, incorrect consent, injury to the patient etc. RN's in the OR also tend to have to take a leadership role by managing the OR list, delegating to staff, ensuring there is enough equipment and stock for each case and basically being the first point of call for any problems.

I have come across RN's that look down on EN's and treat them like dirt which makes me feel ashamed. I have also worked with EN's that are constantly moaning and complaining about their limited scope of practice, yet won't enrol in the RN course. I don't agree with either attitudes.

I think you should check out other threads that talk about AHPRA and moving to Aus.

Thanks for your replies! It sounds like skill/scope level is similar however the RN role also includes more autonomy, management and delegation. As for the treatment of colleagues based on the letters in front of their title (RN/EN) it appears these attitudes are not generalized views but rather attitudes expressed by certain individuals. This is a shame, in such a tough industry of healthcare you would think working as a team would make things go a lot smoother in your shift!

In light of comments about the work being so similar, what would RNs on here say to an EN student planning to do the "make up" course to RN after graduation?

I am about to begin my Diploma and once finished I will be automatically offered a place in the local Universities Bachelor of Nursing, which I have three years to accept. Upon finishing the Diploma I am considering working full time as an EN for about a year and then going back to part time while I complete the Bachelor (which is 18 months of work but would take 3 years part time).

However if the work is that similar, is doing the Bachelor a waste of time? It kind of seems that way except for the pay difference of course, and that my Husband has a British passport and we're hoping to move to the UK (for a year in two) in about 8 years. It's my understanding that the UK has no equivalent to an EN so if I want to work there as a nurse I need to be a qualified RN.

Oh by the way, since this is my first post, hi :)

The bachelor isnt a waste of time. although the scope is similar in terms of skills performed, RNs are more autonomous and can make decisions without consulting another nurse or physician as well as carrying more responsibility overall especially in emergency situations. There are no limitations to their scope like ENs can experience eg: ENs cannot administer certain meds if a patients condition suddenly deteriorates etc. There's also more career opportunities as an RN, there is a clinical ladder that you can climb in terms of responsibility and wages where as ENs have a 5 year salary cap and can not advance in skills or responsibility (cannot be in charge). Also there are areas of nursing that ENs are rarely seen in such as critical care areas. I would recommend definitely doing your diploma first then bridge to RN. your EN training will give you excellent practical skills that RN students will be envious of if you choose to bridge. And thats the thing you might not want to bridge, there are a lot of ENs that choose to remain as ENs so that they can stay in their job they love without pressure from management to become a charge nurse etc.