Enraged (venting) - page 9
OK, I know y'all can relate... Tonight I received a 23yoM, out drinking and driving, hitting parked cars. He already has 2 felony DUI's on his records. He fought with fire department on scene... Read More
Dec 30, '06Joined: Oct '06; Posts: 29; Likes: 2these are hard times for those of us in the trenches....we deal with violent patients ,violent and mean families and a board of nursing that holds nurses to a nonreality based standard.....we work hard everyday in the most extreme situations..... and violence in the workplace should never be tolerated....my husband was one of the male ER nurses charged with patient abuse for his handeling of a violent and combative patient during restraint placement...we have been thru hell and back...it cost us 30,000 to prove it was not patient abuse....when will we take a stand that in the comission of a felony whatever happens to a violent individual is their own fault.....or the patient out of control, the nurse needs to be free to use whatever force necessary to control the situation they find themsleves in... without the fear of the BON filing charges....what nurse goes to work to be involved with a situation like the one the OP was in? and God please tell me why we have to defend ourselves against what another nurse believes they saw.....we can be our own worse enemy... how about walk a mile in the others shoes instead of judging so harshly....to the OP, my prayers are with you....we have been in your place....my prayer for you is that the people around you will do the right thing........laura
Dec 31, '06Occupation: RN in a Level II Trauma ED Specialty: ED-CEN/PACU/Flight ; From: US ; Joined: Mar '06; Posts: 109; Likes: 84Thank you for all the responses! I greatly appreciate it! I have been reading them, but have held off on replying in order to ingest the replies.
I was sore for a week, but other than that I was just fine. I was calmed down by the next morning. However, I would like to respond to a couple of comments.
I am not in trouble in any way, shape, or form. My co-workers (including management) support me in filing charges. In fact, before I could even say that I was going to file charges, several people told me I should.
I did not THREATEN the patient with paralyzing and intubation. I had already explained (ad naseum) the need to remain still (even though he was stinking drunk and I knew it would make no difference), and that for his SAFETY what would happen if need be. It was his choice to go ballistic after many attempts to "educate" and "reorient", and if I didn't phrase my comment perfectly after he punched me, then too damn bad.
As far as an incomplete assessment is concerned; I tried (in vain) to argue with the doctor that he needed sedation and intubation from the get-to. If the doctor doesn't want to do RSI, then I can't exactly take that matter into my own hands, now can I...
And as far as A & B on the patient goes; Whatever... I may sound rude and flippant, and that is not my intention, but I will be damned if I am going to stand there and continue to be beat on (and possibly killed for all I know) while waiting for help (even if they're only 5-10 steps away). If I wanted that kind of abuse, I would have stayed married.
I only hit him hard enough (and long enough) in order to be released. Yes, I was enraged and scared, but I didn't hit him out of anger for being drunk and daring to touch me. Self-defense pure and simple. I didn't continue to hit him after being released, and I never tazed him, it was the policemen that were tazing him.
If that makes me a bad nurse, so be it. Just because I became an RN does NOT mean that I gave up my civil rights. And as far as I'm concerned, once the patient crosses certain boundaries (such as punching their nurse), then they deserve to go to jail.
Dec 31, '06Joined: Sep '03; Posts: 6,885; Likes: 12,486Glad to hear from you, OP!
Take care, and keep on keepin' on ...
Dec 31, '06Specialty: MICU/SICU ; Joined: Dec '05; Posts: 190; Likes: 54You're going to be stronger, as a woman, for this. I responded earlier to your post. Just wanted to say thanks for being strong - I'm only a nursing student, but you are inspiring both as a nurse and a fellow-fem. You take care, now!
Dec 31, '06Joined: Dec '06; Posts: 398; Likes: 282Quote from tutored:yeahthat:You're going to be stronger, as a woman, for this. I responded earlier to your post. Just wanted to say thanks for being strong - I'm only a nursing student, but you are inspiring both as a nurse and a fellow-fem. You take care, now!
Jan 8, '07Joined: Sep '05; Posts: 937; Likes: 136Quote from MLOSdont feel bad- its not just where you are at - my workplace has turned my "dementia" unit into a "special care " unit and brought me in 2 alcohol dementia patients who are violent and one who is psychotic and abusive verbally and physically - and another dementia who is violent - we are every night getting kicked hit and bit - the DON gets hit once and they send him out via police on a chapter 51 - and bring him back a few days later. now he and the others still hit us and push us and etc - well - the other day one has me cornered hitting me and another is tearing apart my med cart and med sheets and i yelled down the hall ( and not meanly just loudly and firmly so she would hear and hopefully turn away from the cart - my one aide that wasn't at supper - was in a room and unable to get out immediately at the moment - ) well my administrator heard my voice ( which is quite loud and boisterous anyhow - and heard me raise the voice to say " so and so get away from the cart please - my exact words) and came down to tell me it was unacceptable and would never ever happen again -There's the answer:
"Dear ER manager/charge nurse, I will be unable to care for intoxicated, unruly patients as of this date."
i wasn't even mean in tone or anything( i did to bite my tongue to NOT be angry toned with THEM - the powers that be that is though) just loud to be heard above the din of the rest yelling etc - and i get made to feel like the bad guy. and best part is these wonderful powers that be say oh you dont have to yell or yada yad a i have worked down there ( id like to know when - noone has seen em ) and you just need to be calm and soft voiced ( HA - i would LOVE to see them working it for an entire pm shift especially when sundowners get going with the rest lol) - its all over the place - we are to take abuse and take it with glee - hell even the docs and visitors run like heck to get off the unit when they come and say we should get combat pay hahah. oh and by the way - calling out so and so name loudly and firmly, often does cause them to stop ( heading for the door, swinging at someone else or whatever they are doing at the moment giving us just enough time to get there to intercede before they get out the door or hit another resident - but we aren't allowed to do that either) - sometimes it feels like nursing is either a bad joke or a nightmare.
i really love my people i work on - they are like family to me and i would yell out for a family member name if i felt they were heading into something that could be dangerous to them or others so i could get closer to help them - it burns me that we cant do that in a sensible way- i am not saying we should swear or yell meanly at someone for having a disease that impairs their brain - but coe on - how can we protect them if we cant be firm - it feels like it be like letting my kid run out in the street without yelling at them to stop - i just dont get it..... we have one who looks like a train hit her - she falls on her face near every day - why - because we can not hold her arms to keep her from standing and walking (* when she cant stand and walk she stands and falls on her face ) she doesnt belong where we cant do thi - can psych wards use restraints anymore- can they use the old time remedy of haldol im etc - to help these people - these folks are just numbers and heads for our place to say they have em and get money - its sickening cause the resident is really the one who suffers- sure we get a few bruises but they heal - it just kills me that these folks aren't getting the good care they should be cause we cant do anything - sigh - rock and hard place is nursing - sad sad sad
Jan 8, '07Joined: Sep '05; Posts: 937; Likes: 136Quote from SiamCat1In a extremely concerted effort to not be disrespectful in any way, I will just say that anyone who took measures to protect themselves after having been puched twice in the chest and once in the face IS NOT an assault and batterer, but a VICTIM of assault and battery.
Where I wonder, did this idea come from, that health care individuals have no right to protect THEMSELVES from physical harm inflicted by another individual? Where do you draw the line between getting hit 2,3,4,5 times and getting dead? Several well placed hard punches can knock a person out, and then what? You are at the mercy of someone who obviously did not feel it was wrong to punch you in the first place, you really think it's not a leap that they might not feel its wrong to kill you just because they feel like it?
Not in my world people, I've got three babies to go home to.
This entire line of reasoning has me enraged.
the unfortnate part is many places of employment would say you cant do your job if you pressed charges - i know my place makes us feel that way when we are hit etc - ( umm but the DON gets hit and they call cops go figure) they sure also make one feel like you call anyone and your job could be in jeapordy - not cool.
Jan 8, '07Joined: Dec '05; Posts: 860; Likes: 105Deja Vue this sounds like my last 12 hours only my patient was not drunk he was an old drunk that has shot his liver and already had one tips procedure and admitted with an amonia level of 169. I too had the luxury of taking this wild cat to ct scan ...what a trip. I hurt all over now and feel like steve the crocodile guy that has been wrestling alligators all day only to get up in 3 hours to go do it again.
May 17, '08Occupation: RN-OR Specialty: 33 year(s) of experience in OR, OB, EM, Flight, ICU, PACU...... ; Joined: Apr '08; Posts: 173; Likes: 149Quote from TrudyRNTrudy, are you freaking kidding me?!If you read the thread, you wouldn't have even been able to ask that question! Everyone has the right to self-defense! I think you should quit wherever you are and move to Boulder, or somewhere in California. Then you could all join hands around the campfire and sing "Kumbaya" while patients physically abuse you.First, I think you need to stop working with this type of patient. You assaulted and battered a patient, which could very well be felonious. You'd better check with a lawyer ASAP, I think.
Your upset is perfectly understandable. No one should have to deal with this mess. But I am not sure that a nurse has the right to strike a patient. I suppose a case could be made for self-defense.
May 17, '08Joined: Aug '04; Posts: 9,279; Likes: 4,302Viking kitten, please note the date of the posts on this thread. The OP's issue has probably been settled for quite some time now.
May 17, '08From: US ; Joined: Jan '06; Posts: 13,193; Likes: 17,910I think you responded beautifully. You were being assaulted and defended yourself.
May 18, '08Occupation: RN, BSN, CEN, CCRN, CFRN Specialty: ER/SICU/Med-Surg/Ortho/Trauma/Flight ; From: US ; Joined: Aug '05; Posts: 395; Likes: 193Trudy, you cant be serious! I have been an ED nursing supervisor on nights for a long time and I would have done the same thing, if this little monster tried to attack me! Its called the flight or fight reaction! We learned it in physiology class remeber! And not all of us in ER have the pleasure of working corrections with tons of gaurds standing and sitting around on there a$$e$ just waiting for something like this!
And to the op, youll be fine! you just need some time! but I would edit your post like the others said and take out the part about punching him!
No matter what we do there will always be some jack@$$ to call us on it!!
May 18, '08Joined: Nov '07; Posts: 487; Likes: 581Quote from jojotooMany times the drunks get intubated for THEIR own safety, I agree, shame on that ER doc.First, stop wasting your time thinking about him. He's made his choices and now he has to live with them.
Second, are you upset that you punched him? Your actions seem reasonable to me since you said that you were trying to get away to prevent him from further assaulting you. How many times do YOU think you should allow yourself to be punched before you become proactive in your safety?
And shame on your ER doc. Any patient that has to be tazered to be CT'd should have immediately been paralyzed and intubated.
You've had a huge adrenaline rush tonight. You're going to think about it a lot. Time will make it better.
When you tell this story at work, leave out the part about punching him. While your peers that have stood there on the line with you understand the dynamics of what happened, there's always going to be that ONE who will put you at fault and try to take your license if they can.